Again, the power meter pedals are the best solution here. I wouldnt doubt riding at a much higher cadence would yield a lower power output as I have not really trained at that high of a cadence. Also if I was doing these numbers at a 90 cadence, people would have the same issue with the accuracy of the output.
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Peloton Professional wrote:
I am wondering if I could buy some power meter pedals to install on the peloton, use for a couple of sessions and then return them. That would at least give me an idea of how accurate the Pelotons power readings are. I need to find some place that sells power meter pedals with a decent return policy.
A couple issues with that-
1. Power meter pedals can be uncalibrated out of the box and have to be re-calibrated outside. You also have to set the crank arm length if the outdoor bike it was calibrated with is different from the Peloton.
2. Peloton pedals use a different clip size from the rest of the world, or at least they used to, so you also have to replace the cleats on the shoes
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I knew it! As I mentioned, the peloton algorithm is very messed up with how it treats cadence. Lower cadence skews the numbers big time.
From a more practical perspective (even if the power algorithm was correct, which I can confirm it isnt), you can't race at a cadence like that. You need to be spinning at least 80 rpm and closer to 90 in a race. More specifically, to react to the quick surges in a race situation, you need to be able to spin up quickly at very high power. You can't react if you are pushing a huge gear at 60 rpms. Sprints are generally at 110-125 rpms at power over 1000 watts (pro peloton is 1500 watts).
Sorry to break it to you, but I'm glad we solved this.
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Hardloper wrote:
Peloton Professional wrote:
I am wondering if I could buy some power meter pedals to install on the peloton, use for a couple of sessions and then return them. That would at least give me an idea of how accurate the Pelotons power readings are. I need to find some place that sells power meter pedals with a decent return policy.
A couple issues with that-
1. Power meter pedals can be uncalibrated out of the box and have to be re-calibrated outside. You also have to set the crank arm length if the outdoor bike it was calibrated with is different from the Peloton.
2. Peloton pedals use a different clip size from the rest of the world, or at least they used to, so you also have to replace the cleats on the shoes
As to the second point, the set I am looking at has clips included that I believe will be able to be attached to the peloton shoes I already have.
Im a little confused as to the first point. Why would they need to be re-calibrated outside? I just want to use them a couple of times on the Peloton and then return them. Could I not calibrate them by using them on the peloton?
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Pelotoner wrote:
I knew it! As I mentioned, the peloton algorithm is very messed up with how it treats cadence. Lower cadence skews the numbers big time.
From a more practical perspective (even if the power algorithm was correct, which I can confirm it isnt), you can't race at a cadence like that. You need to be spinning at least 80 rpm and closer to 90 in a race. More specifically, to react to the quick surges in a race situation, you need to be able to spin up quickly at very high power. You can't react if you are pushing a huge gear at 60 rpms. Sprints are generally at 110-125 rpms at power over 1000 watts (pro peloton is 1500 watts).
Sorry to break it to you, but I'm glad we solved this.
Its not going to be solved until I get the power meter pedals and test. That will solve the question, not your speculation as to the peloton algorithm which I am sure you know very little about.
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Peloton Professional wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
A couple issues with that-
1. Power meter pedals can be uncalibrated out of the box and have to be re-calibrated outside. You also have to set the crank arm length if the outdoor bike it was calibrated with is different from the Peloton.
2. Peloton pedals use a different clip size from the rest of the world, or at least they used to, so you also have to replace the cleats on the shoes
As to the second point, the set I am looking at has clips included that I believe will be able to be attached to the peloton shoes I already have.
Im a little confused as to the first point. Why would they need to be re-calibrated outside? I just want to use them a couple of times on the Peloton and then return them. Could I not calibrate them by using them on the peloton?
I bought used power meter pedals (Garmin Vector 2) and they were totally out of whack (by 3x) so I don't know if I would trust the reading without calibration.
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water and bread wrote:
Peloton Professional wrote:
Honestly thats where I think I realistically am at. Im thinking of getting power pedals or something like that to get the peloton to work with Zwift.
99% of my Peloton rides involve me pushing myself as hard as I can, typically for a 30 minute class to try to maximize output. If I have the time I will do 45 or 60 minute classes.
My max heart rate is somewhere in the range of 185-190 and Ill spend most of the class in 165-170.
This is just the way I like to ride. Even if I intend on taking a class easy, my competitive nature takes over and I end up in this style of ride. I think it inadvertently was an excellent way to train and in the last couple of months, Ive seen a major improvement in all my output.
For reference I plugged the OP's claimed weight and power numbers into the Bike Calculator website. At 80 kg on a 7kg bike with tubular tires he'd make 28.5 mph on the drops and 31 mph in an aero position. And that formula is based on 20 yr old bike geometry and normal wheels. With newer aero bikes and deep dish wheels he'd be 1-2 mph faster.
At my best, I managed 26 mph for a 30k bike leg in a triathlon on a TT bike with an aero helmet, and 808 Zipp wheels. I'd guess I was was putting out around 260-280 W @ 70 kg for 3.8-4.0 w/ kg. That was good for top 10% males in a heavily contested triathlon in Boulder CO, with some World Tour pros who smoked the field with 29-30 mph bike splits.
To hold 425 W for 30 mins without real bike training just isn't happening.
OP's last "endurance sport training" was during his formative teenage years and after his hazy 5 - maybe 10 year layoff (hard to remember; so long ago) he chooses THIS FORUM for wattage advice. On a peloton. Pulling the same exact values you get when googling "what is pro cycling wattage?"
That said, it prompted one of the strangest of letsrun behaviors: multiple posts with thinly veiled passive-aggressive objective reasoning before the REAL "you can't do it because I can't do it" post like this. Zwift and its controlled environment has shown us 425w for 30 is possible from relative novices with huge capacity without real bike training on a real bike road. Some have a real hard time knowing people like that do exist. They're probably riding pelotons too. OP's not one of them.
Well done though, OP and keep the updates coming - high tech pedals, tricycle sprints or group elliptical spins included!
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Hardloper wrote:
Peloton Professional wrote:
As to the second point, the set I am looking at has clips included that I believe will be able to be attached to the peloton shoes I already have.
Im a little confused as to the first point. Why would they need to be re-calibrated outside? I just want to use them a couple of times on the Peloton and then return them. Could I not calibrate them by using them on the peloton?
I bought used power meter pedals (Garmin Vector 2) and they were totally out of whack (by 3x) so I don't know if I would trust the reading without calibration.
So they cannot be calibrated without riding them outside? What does the calibration process entail?
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Haha. I do know about the Peloton algorithm. As I stated, Ive trained with a reliable powermeter for many years. I've also used the Peloton a lot (I have one). I know the flaws in it and from the getgo of this thread, I speculated that you were exploiting the low cadence flaw. I didn't just make it up - I have seen it and can replicate it myself. Save yourself the headache and don't bother with the powermeter. Its only going to prove me right.
Why don't you go do 30 mins at 90 cadence on the peloton to get a slightly better (although also not totally accurate) view of your power. A lot easier than buying and returning a powermeter that you aren't going to be able to figure out.
Also, cycling on an erg is very different than cycling with a real bike that doesnt hold the inertia the same way. But thats overly technical given the larger issues here...
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Is it a bike or bike + ?
The normal peloton bike doesn't have a power meter and can be really inaccurate. Even drifting accuracy during the course of a workout and – I imagine – drifting depending on cadence.
The bike+ has a real power meter in the internals and is generally very accurate:
Likely you just have a miscalibrated bike. Buy the bike calibration kit and re-calibrate it.
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jethro miles iv wrote:
OP's last "endurance sport training" was during his formative teenage years and after his hazy 5 - maybe 10 year layoff (hard to remember; so long ago) he chooses THIS FORUM for wattage advice. On a peloton. Pulling the same exact values you get when googling "what is pro cycling wattage?"
That said, it prompted one of the strangest of letsrun behaviors: multiple posts with thinly veiled passive-aggressive objective reasoning before the REAL "you can't do it because I can't do it" post like this. Zwift and its controlled environment has shown us 425w for 30 is possible from relative novices with huge capacity without real bike training on a real bike road. Some have a real hard time knowing people like that do exist. They're probably riding pelotons too. OP's not one of them.
Well done though, OP and keep the updates coming - high tech pedals, tricycle sprints or group elliptical spins included!
You make many good points. All I can say is my numbers are real, if the peloton is accurate. I have gotten the pedals and will have an answer soon.
I know that I am in really good shape right now, even in comparison to my shape I was in in high school (im a slower runner but I bet if I converted the majority of my cycling training to running training, it would not take long to surpass my high school running PRs).
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Harambe wrote:
Is it a bike or bike + ?
The normal peloton bike doesn't have a power meter and can be really inaccurate. Even drifting accuracy during the course of a workout and – I imagine – drifting depending on cadence.
The bike+ has a real power meter in the internals and is generally very accurate:
Likely you just have a miscalibrated bike. Buy the bike calibration kit and re-calibrate it.
It a normal peloton bike. Im getting power pedals and will check with those. Even if it is off, I will have an idea by how much and have a general idea of my "true power" that way.
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Pelotoner wrote:
Haha. I do know about the Peloton algorithm. As I stated, Ive trained with a reliable powermeter for many years. I've also used the Peloton a lot (I have one). I know the flaws in it and from the getgo of this thread, I speculated that you were exploiting the low cadence flaw. I didn't just make it up - I have seen it and can replicate it myself. Save yourself the headache and don't bother with the powermeter. Its only going to prove me right.
Why don't you go do 30 mins at 90 cadence on the peloton to get a slightly better (although also not totally accurate) view of your power. A lot easier than buying and returning a powermeter that you aren't going to be able to figure out.
Also, cycling on an erg is very different than cycling with a real bike that doesnt hold the inertia the same way. But thats overly technical given the larger issues here...
What is your 30 minute PR?
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It seems like you don't want to hear what everyone else is saying. If you're a big boy runner, you're likely a high-powered (in absolute terms) cyclist. 400w+ at an aerobic effort is out of pocket though, unless you're highly trained in cycling. 300w would be believable, but still good.
I'm a similar build, have zwift on a tacx neo, which has a real power meter, and my wife has peloton which i ride on from time to time. I have about a 300w ftp on the tacx (this is after training cycles, I started at 240w), and can average 500w+ for a peloton ride.
It can be "accurate" for your wife, but not for you. The estimation algorithm is designed for average people who buy pelotons, not outlier athletes.
If you really think you're a cycling prodigy then meet up with a coach or high performance training group and see if you can use their equipment for an indoor ride / ftp test.
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345 watts in a race, with a calibrated powermeter, with zero averaging. 430 for 5 mins and 317 for an hour under the same circumstances. At the time I weighed about 172 lbs and was a decent cat2 racer.
Guess what? I've put out higher numbers on a Peloton, but they are irrelevant.
I have nothing to prove, other than the fact that I am experienced with powermeters.
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walk breaks wrote:
It seems like you don't want to hear what everyone else is saying. If you're a big boy runner, you're likely a high-powered (in absolute terms) cyclist. 400w+ at an aerobic effort is out of pocket though, unless you're highly trained in cycling. 300w would be believable, but still good.
I'm a similar build, have zwift on a tacx neo, which has a real power meter, and my wife has peloton which i ride on from time to time. I have about a 300w ftp on the tacx (this is after training cycles, I started at 240w), and can average 500w+ for a peloton ride.
It can be "accurate" for your wife, but not for you. The estimation algorithm is designed for average people who buy pelotons, not outlier athletes.
If you really think you're a cycling prodigy then meet up with a coach or high performance training group and see if you can use their equipment for an indoor ride / ftp test.
I agree with everything you have said. Ill be curious to see what the power meter pedals tell me.
I have a very low body fat percentage, was a former runner of decent ability (4:30 mile), am currently in excellent shape and I think I have a personality that is good for cycling (basically every workout I have completed has been a very high effort, something like a hard tempo run since I have used the bike).
It seems like if the numbers are legitimate, I am some rare talent which is obviously very appealing for me. If they are not legitimate, I will at least be glad to know where I stand.
Depending on that information, I will probably move towards a more legitimate training setup/getting on an actual bike or I will just continue to enjoy peloton and maybe convert more of my training towards running.
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Pelotoner wrote:
345 watts in a race, with a calibrated powermeter, with zero averaging. 430 for 5 mins and 317 for an hour under the same circumstances. At the time I weighed about 172 lbs and was a decent cat2 racer.
Guess what? I've put out higher numbers on a Peloton, but they are irrelevant.
I have nothing to prove, other than the fact that I am experienced with powermeters.
Thats fairly mid
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but my knowledge of power training is high-grade.
This thread is like saying you ran your 4:30 mile on a nordic track.
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Peloton Professional wrote:
walk breaks wrote:
It seems like you don't want to hear what everyone else is saying. If you're a big boy runner, you're likely a high-powered (in absolute terms) cyclist. 400w+ at an aerobic effort is out of pocket though, unless you're highly trained in cycling. 300w would be believable, but still good.
I'm a similar build, have zwift on a tacx neo, which has a real power meter, and my wife has peloton which i ride on from time to time. I have about a 300w ftp on the tacx (this is after training cycles, I started at 240w), and can average 500w+ for a peloton ride.
It can be "accurate" for your wife, but not for you. The estimation algorithm is designed for average people who buy pelotons, not outlier athletes.
If you really think you're a cycling prodigy then meet up with a coach or high performance training group and see if you can use their equipment for an indoor ride / ftp test.
I agree with everything you have said. Ill be curious to see what the power meter pedals tell me.
I have a very low body fat percentage, was a former runner of decent ability (4:30 mile), am currently in excellent shape and I think I have a personality that is good for cycling (basically every workout I have completed has been a very high effort, something like a hard tempo run since I have used the bike).
It seems like if the numbers are legitimate, I am some rare talent which is obviously very appealing for me. If they are not legitimate, I will at least be glad to know where I stand.
Depending on that information, I will probably move towards a more legitimate training setup/getting on an actual bike or I will just continue to enjoy peloton and maybe convert more of my training towards running.
Some helpful reading...
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Pelotoner wrote:
but my knowledge of power training is high-grade.
This thread is like saying you ran your 4:30 mile on a nordic track.
If your knowledge of power training is high-grade, you should be satisfied when I report back with my power pedal comparison. It will not take more than a week.
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