We’ve seen a new era in distance running for non African born athletes jakob, Kerr, Nico, fisher ect.
this has definitely begun to show it’s not about “genetics”
what’s stopping us from catching up in the sprints? Is it a psychological barrier???
Which Caucasian?
You know it's "et cetera" right? You're not so dumb to think it's "ec tecera" are you? I mean even if you completely take a guess, you had a 50% chance of getting it completely right.
From 1932 to 1964, 100m dash was multi-ethnic with participants from all over the world.
N Young & Fisher have no world records and no international medals.
Dominate? That's a strong word. From 1960 Olympics through most recent Olympic, men and women from all over the world appear to have legit medal hopes, 200m to 5000m.
When was the last time a Non Afro man/Lady won a 100m or 200m??
Marcel Jacobs? Been a few in the 60m, e.g. Richard Kilty.
I take the point though. WA folks dominate in whatever country they end up in, be that UK, Jamaica, USA, France, Ireland, etc. Don't know if studies have been done but circumstantially it's huge.. not just winners but literally all the finals and semi finals are WA origin.
I would bet on WA folks having some gene that gives them a higher probability of being good sprinters.
I would not bet as confidently on this for EA folks at distance, but they do tend to have a frame that suits long distance running and lots of diaspora success (e.g Mo, Mo, Yared) so I'd want them on my randomly selected team!
When was the last time a Non Afro man/Lady won a 100m or 200m??
Marcel Jacobs? Been a few in the 60m, e.g. Richard Kilty.
I take the point though. WA folks dominate in whatever country they end up in, be that UK, Jamaica, USA, France, Ireland, etc. Don't know if studies have been done but circumstantially it's huge.. not just winners but literally all the finals and semi finals are WA origin.
I would bet on WA folks having some gene that gives them a higher probability of being good sprinters.
I would not bet as confidently on this for EA folks at distance, but they do tend to have a frame that suits long distance running and lots of diaspora success (e.g Mo, Mo, Yared) so I'd want them on my randomly selected team!
Sorry to break it to you Marcel is a Brother hahaha, Also East African diaspora are so overwhelming dominate in their respective new nations that it appears to be just as dominant -
Moh Ahmed Canada 🇨🇦- WC Bronze OG Silver - First North American to break the sub 12:50 mark.
Mo farah - self explanatory
Yared Nguse - Huge talent already has got some hardware to his name
Paul Chelimo/Lagat - have won more medals combined then all other male American distance runners in the last 20 years
Abdirahman Abdi - og back in the day that ran 27:20s 5 time Olympian
Suldan Hassan - Sweden NR Marathon + Mustafa Mohammed who had an insane fast steeple time
The two Spanish lads - Thierry and Tariku
Belgium and Dutch lads Bashir Abdi and Abdi Nageye going 2-3 in Tokyo with Bashir getting another medal and area Record
Siffan hassan the female goat 🐐
Marco Arop - two medals from South Sudan 🇸🇸
lopez Lomong, Hassan mead, Abdihamid Nur all have made teams for USA
Mohammed Mohammed from Germany 🇩🇪 guy is a great talent and should be due for sub 13. Only behind Dieter on German record who got popped for Deca.
there probably more, this is just an observation tell me what you think
Marcel Jacobs? Been a few in the 60m, e.g. Richard Kilty.
I take the point though. WA folks dominate in whatever country they end up in, be that UK, Jamaica, USA, France, Ireland, etc. Don't know if studies have been done but circumstantially it's huge.. not just winners but literally all the finals and semi finals are WA origin.
I would bet on WA folks having some gene that gives them a higher probability of being good sprinters.
I would not bet as confidently on this for EA folks at distance, but they do tend to have a frame that suits long distance running and lots of diaspora success (e.g Mo, Mo, Yared) so I'd want them on my randomly selected team!
Sorry to break it to you Marcel is a Brother hahaha, Also East African diaspora are so overwhelming dominate in their respective new nations that it appears to be just as dominant -
Moh Ahmed Canada 🇨🇦- WC Bronze OG Silver - First North American to break the sub 12:50 mark.
Mo farah - self explanatory
Yared Nguse - Huge talent already has got some hardware to his name
Paul Chelimo/Lagat - have won more medals combined then all other male American distance runners in the last 20 years
Abdirahman Abdi - og back in the day that ran 27:20s 5 time Olympian
Suldan Hassan - Sweden NR Marathon + Mustafa Mohammed who had an insane fast steeple time
The two Spanish lads - Thierry and Tariku
Belgium and Dutch lads Bashir Abdi and Abdi Nageye going 2-3 in Tokyo with Bashir getting another medal and area Record
Siffan hassan the female goat 🐐
Marco Arop - two medals from South Sudan 🇸🇸
lopez Lomong, Hassan mead, Abdihamid Nur all have made teams for USA
Mohammed Mohammed from Germany 🇩🇪 guy is a great talent and should be due for sub 13. Only behind Dieter on German record who got popped for Deca.
there probably more, this is just an observation tell me what you think
You forgot my boy Dominic lobalu from Switzerland and Tadese Abraham, you forgot yeman Crippa from Italy and petros from Germany impressive list tho
The apparent West African talent for 'explosive' athletic ability has carried over to dozens of sports. The supposed 'natural born runner' genes of the East African has not crossed over into any other sport. There have been a couple of promising East African cyclists recently, but that is likely due to professional teams scouting East Africa - i.e. self-fulfilling. Imagine if East African soccer players could run around the pitch significantly more than other ethnicities without getting tired. But they can't.
Also,.haven't they found a 'speed gene' that West Africans possess to a greater frequency? Despite many efforts, no 'special genes' have been found among East Africans to explain their success.
No doubt the 'myth' of West African descent having a greater talent for sprinting is at least to an extent self-fulfilling. But in the case of East Africans and distance running its been entirely disproven (or proven to be a myth).
And yes, saying that 'blacks can run faster' opens the door to racists saying 'whites are more intelligent'.
Cycling takes much more resources and training and actually makes Africans lose the mechanical advantage that they have. Also the gene is called Actn 3 which 99% of Nigerians have…. The kicker is that 99% and 80% of Kenyans and Ethiopian have these gene 🧬. This a much higher frequency than Caucasian population along with the fact that Most kalejin and Oromo populations respond to altitude much better than other ethnic groups is another factor. African tends to have better heat dissipation, Denser and finer bones, Longer tendons which all contribute to better running economy and efficiency at faster speeds. Caucasian dominant at a plethora of sports that on average their body composition suits more, strong man, weightlifting, Rowing, Cycling ect. My question to you coevett is would put your money on 500 Caucasian kids at random vs 500 East African at random ( Kenyan/Ethiopian/South Sudan/Somali) give them the same resources and training and which group would outperform the other? I’m talking the EA.
Enjoy this recent study on Israeli Ethiopians 2021
“The dominance of Ethiopian origin Israeli long-distance runners is associated not only with endurance genetic polymorphisms but also with polymorphisms of enhanced speed performance (ACTN3 RR), improved lactate clearance (MCT1 AA), and better recovery capabilities (low IL-6-174C”
Hi Hoad. So Ethiopian runners who dominate Israeli distance runners have more genes that are associated with distance running success than.the Israelis.
Wow, that's so surprising. I remember looking at the results of the British amatuer wrestling championships in the 90's. It was totally dominated by Armericans studying in the UK. I'm pretty sure if they compared the genes of the Americans and the British wrestlers, they would find the Americans had better 'wrestling genes'.
But you know what? It wouldn't mean that 'Americans have a genetic advantage over Brits for wrestling'.
Cycling takes much more resources and training and actually makes Africans lose the mechanical advantage that they have. Also the gene is called Actn 3 which 99% of Nigerians have…. The kicker is that 99% and 80% of Kenyans and Ethiopian have these gene 🧬. This a much higher frequency than Caucasian population along with the fact that Most kalejin and Oromo populations respond to altitude much better than other ethnic groups is another factor. African tends to have better heat dissipation, Denser and finer bones, Longer tendons which all contribute to better running economy and efficiency at faster speeds. Caucasian dominant at a plethora of sports that on average their body composition suits more, strong man, weightlifting, Rowing, Cycling ect. My question to you coevett is would put your money on 500 Caucasian kids at random vs 500 East African at random ( Kenyan/Ethiopian/South Sudan/Somali) give them the same resources and training and which group would outperform the other? I’m talking the EA.
Enjoy this recent study on Israeli Ethiopians 2021
“The dominance of Ethiopian origin Israeli long-distance runners is associated not only with endurance genetic polymorphisms but also with polymorphisms of enhanced speed performance (ACTN3 RR), improved lactate clearance (MCT1 AA), and better recovery capabilities (low IL-6-174C”
Hi Hoad. So Ethiopian runners who dominate Israeli distance runners have more genes that are associated with distance running success than.the Israelis.
Wow, that's so surprising. I remember looking at the results of the British amatuer wrestling championships in the 90's. It was totally dominated by Armericans studying in the UK. I'm pretty sure if they compared the genes of the Americans and the British wrestlers, they would find the Americans had better 'wrestling genes'.
But you know what? It wouldn't mean that 'Americans have a genetic advantage over Brits for wrestling'.
Americans vs British could be lots of different peoples bro - Israeli and Ethiopians are quite homogeneous groups so what ever study your citing isn’t comparable
Cycling takes much more resources and training and actually makes Africans lose the mechanical advantage that they have. Also the gene is called Actn 3 which 99% of Nigerians have…. The kicker is that 99% and 80% of Kenyans and Ethiopian have these gene 🧬. This a much higher frequency than Caucasian population along with the fact that Most kalejin and Oromo populations respond to altitude much better than other ethnic groups is another factor. African tends to have better heat dissipation, Denser and finer bones, Longer tendons which all contribute to better running economy and efficiency at faster speeds. Caucasian dominant at a plethora of sports that on average their body composition suits more, strong man, weightlifting, Rowing, Cycling ect. My question to you coevett is would put your money on 500 Caucasian kids at random vs 500 East African at random ( Kenyan/Ethiopian/South Sudan/Somali) give them the same resources and training and which group would outperform the other? I’m talking the EA.
Enjoy this recent study on Israeli Ethiopians 2021
“The dominance of Ethiopian origin Israeli long-distance runners is associated not only with endurance genetic polymorphisms but also with polymorphisms of enhanced speed performance (ACTN3 RR), improved lactate clearance (MCT1 AA), and better recovery capabilities (low IL-6-174C”
Hi Hoad. So Ethiopian runners who dominate Israeli distance runners have more genes that are associated with distance running success than.the Israelis.
Wow, that's so surprising. I remember looking at the results of the British amatuer wrestling championships in the 90's. It was totally dominated by Armericans studying in the UK. I'm pretty sure if they compared the genes of the Americans and the British wrestlers, they would find the Americans had better 'wrestling genes'.
But you know what? It wouldn't mean that 'Americans have a genetic advantage over Brits for wrestling'.
That was a horrible Rebuttal provide the paper at least
The apparent West African talent for 'explosive' athletic ability has carried over to dozens of sports. The supposed 'natural born runner' genes of the East African has not crossed over into any other sport. There have been a couple of promising East African cyclists recently, but that is likely due to professional teams scouting East Africa - i.e. self-fulfilling. Imagine if East African soccer players could run around the pitch significantly more than other ethnicities without getting tired. But they can't.
Also,.haven't they found a 'speed gene' that West Africans possess to a greater frequency? Despite many efforts, no 'special genes' have been found among East Africans to explain their success.
No doubt the 'myth' of West African descent having a greater talent for sprinting is at least to an extent self-fulfilling. But in the case of East Africans and distance running its been entirely disproven (or proven to be a myth).
And yes, saying that 'blacks can run faster' opens the door to racists saying 'whites are more intelligent'.
Cycling takes much more resources and training and actually makes Africans lose the mechanical advantage that they have. Also the gene is called Actn 3 which 99% of Nigerians have…. The kicker is that 99% and 80% of Kenyans and Ethiopian have these gene 🧬. This a much higher frequency than Caucasian population along with the fact that Most kalejin and Oromo populations respond to altitude much better than other ethnic groups is another factor. African tends to have better heat dissipation, Denser and finer bones, Longer tendons which all contribute to better running economy and efficiency at faster speeds. Caucasian dominant at a plethora of sports that on average their body composition suits more, strong man, weightlifting, Rowing, Cycling ect. My question to you coevett is would put your money on 500 Caucasian kids at random vs 500 East African at random ( Kenyan/Ethiopian/South Sudan/Somali) give them the same resources and training and which group would outperform the other? I’m talking the EA.
Enjoy this recent study on Israeli Ethiopians 2021
“The dominance of Ethiopian origin Israeli long-distance runners is associated not only with endurance genetic polymorphisms but also with polymorphisms of enhanced speed performance (ACTN3 RR), improved lactate clearance (MCT1 AA), and better recovery capabilities (low IL-6-174C”
That actually proves nothing really, there are so many better predictors of running success like V02 Max which Caucasian usually actually have much higher total volumes than East Africans….. continue to cherry pick bro, Paris is going to be eye opening ingebrigsten winning the double and fisher beating the African at the 10K, Elle Purrier already showed that she can beat a drugged up Gudaf after giving birth 🤰 EA Will go home devastated lol
Cycling takes much more resources and training and actually makes Africans lose the mechanical advantage that they have. Also the gene is called Actn 3 which 99% of Nigerians have…. The kicker is that 99% and 80% of Kenyans and Ethiopian have these gene 🧬. This a much higher frequency than Caucasian population along with the fact that Most kalejin and Oromo populations respond to altitude much better than other ethnic groups is another factor. African tends to have better heat dissipation, Denser and finer bones, Longer tendons which all contribute to better running economy and efficiency at faster speeds. Caucasian dominant at a plethora of sports that on average their body composition suits more, strong man, weightlifting, Rowing, Cycling ect. My question to you coevett is would put your money on 500 Caucasian kids at random vs 500 East African at random ( Kenyan/Ethiopian/South Sudan/Somali) give them the same resources and training and which group would outperform the other? I’m talking the EA.
Enjoy this recent study on Israeli Ethiopians 2021
“The dominance of Ethiopian origin Israeli long-distance runners is associated not only with endurance genetic polymorphisms but also with polymorphisms of enhanced speed performance (ACTN3 RR), improved lactate clearance (MCT1 AA), and better recovery capabilities (low IL-6-174C”
Hi Hoad. So Ethiopian runners who dominate Israeli distance runners have more genes that are associated with distance running success than.the Israelis.
Wow, that's so surprising. I remember looking at the results of the British amatuer wrestling championships in the 90's. It was totally dominated by Armericans studying in the UK. I'm pretty sure if they compared the genes of the Americans and the British wrestlers, they would find the Americans had better 'wrestling genes'.
But you know what? It wouldn't mean that 'Americans have a genetic advantage over Brits for wrestling'.
Those Russian definitely have the wrestling gene… ow wait…….
When was the last time a Non Afro man/Lady won a 100m or 200m??
Marcel Jacobs? Been a few in the 60m, e.g. Richard Kilty.
I take the point though. WA folks dominate in whatever country they end up in, be that UK, Jamaica, USA, France, Ireland, etc. Don't know if studies have been done but circumstantially it's huge.. not just winners but literally all the finals and semi finals are WA origin.
I would bet on WA folks having some gene that gives them a higher probability of being good sprinters.
I do find it interesting on the Nature v Nurture debate how it bacame that the west africans stolen and moved to the carribbean or the US or wherever seem to out perform sprinters who grew up and reside in west africa.
Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Cameroon, DRC etc. Don't dominate the way Kenya and Ethopia do.
But if you include Jamaca, Bermuda and USA etc they probably do.
Is it simply a question of resouces and if you had coaches, tracks, spikes and a national interest in developing sprinters would Nigeria be more successful than Jamaca due to population or us it just a smaller tribal group of say Yoruba or Ibo or whoever have the genetics. I have no idea
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Marcel Jacobs? Been a few in the 60m, e.g. Richard Kilty.
I take the point though. WA folks dominate in whatever country they end up in, be that UK, Jamaica, USA, France, Ireland, etc. Don't know if studies have been done but circumstantially it's huge.. not just winners but literally all the finals and semi finals are WA origin.
I would bet on WA folks having some gene that gives them a higher probability of being good sprinters.
I do find it interesting on the Nature v Nurture debate how it bacame that the west africans stolen and moved to the carribbean or the US or wherever seem to out perform sprinters who grew up and reside in west africa.
Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Cameroon, DRC etc. Don't dominate the way Kenya and Ethopia do.
But if you include Jamaca, Bermuda and USA etc they probably do.
Is it simply a question of resouces and if you had coaches, tracks, spikes and a national interest in developing sprinters would Nigeria be more successful than Jamaca due to population or us it just a smaller tribal group of say Yoruba or Ibo or whoever have the genetics. I have no idea
100% would dominate, 99% of Nigerians have the good two copy of the Actn 3 gene 🧬. Resources play a big factor, the Ethiopian and Kenyans would dominate more if they had the same resources as the west. Look at how many Third stringer East Africans compete in the west and win. Think about how many athletes you come across that have had gruelling injuries, now multiply that by 10X in east Africa, where there is malnutrition, illness and poor training.
I get what you’re saying but the whole East African dominance was majority cultural influence along with doping and that created a narrative that they had some inherent genetic adaptations which we can see now has been disproved. The same should be able to be articulated in sprints, Afro Caribbean, and west African descent people also have this sprinting genetic stereotype which imo isn’t true
The apparent West African talent for 'explosive' athletic ability has carried over to dozens of sports. The supposed 'natural born runner' genes of the East African has not crossed over into any other sport. There have been a couple of promising East African cyclists recently, but that is likely due to professional teams scouting East Africa - i.e. self-fulfilling. Imagine if East African soccer players could run around the pitch significantly more than other ethnicities without getting tired. But they can't.
Also,.haven't they found a 'speed gene' that West Africans possess to a greater frequency? Despite many efforts, no 'special genes' have been found among East Africans to explain their success.
No doubt the 'myth' of West African descent having a greater talent for sprinting is at least to an extent self-fulfilling. But in the case of East Africans and distance running its been entirely disproven (or proven to be a myth).
And yes, saying that 'blacks can run faster' opens the door to racists saying 'whites are more intelligent'.
The reason East Africans do well in distance running rather than cycling is because running has low entry costs. A peasant living in a remote village anywhere can become a good distance runner. Cycling is a sport with a high entry cost. Not only do you need good bikes, you need a whole team of experts and equipment. Africans who live in Africa don't do well in soccer because the level of coaching, facilities and incentive needed to become world class for the most part don't exist. Thats why so few make it. Africans who live in Europe do much better. Having said that , low cost of entry is just one factor that enables East Africans to excel in running. There are plenty of there factors including the altitude of the East African highlands, lifestyle and the fact that running is often the only way out of poverty for many people.
I do find it interesting on the Nature v Nurture debate how it bacame that the west africans stolen and moved to the carribbean or the US or wherever seem to out perform sprinters who grew up and reside in west africa.
Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Cameroon, DRC etc. Don't dominate the way Kenya and Ethopia do.
But if you include Jamaca, Bermuda and USA etc they probably do.
Is it simply a question of resouces and if you had coaches, tracks, spikes and a national interest in developing sprinters would Nigeria be more successful than Jamaca due to population or us it just a smaller tribal group of say Yoruba or Ibo or whoever have the genetics. I have no idea
Jamaica has more talent per capita than Nigeria. However due to sheer population size, Nigeria should be doing much better. I think its down to culture. Soccer is far more popular than track in Nigeria that the schools and governments don;t bother offering facilities or incentivising young people to take up track as is the case in Nigeria.
And in countries like DRC, Sierra Leone, Togo, Benin etc, the sport of organized track and field is virtually non-existent.
Notice I emphasized "Organized" because you need a running track, coaches, track events and an incentive for youth to take up the sport.
It is about genetics. No quotation marks necessary: genetics are a real thing.
I get what you’re saying but the whole East African dominance was majority cultural influence along with doping and that created a narrative that they had some inherent genetic adaptations which we can see now has been disproved. The same should be able to be articulated in sprints, Afro Caribbean, and west African descent people also have this sprinting genetic stereotype which imo isn’t true
So with as much inherent racism that we have in the US, you would think if genes meant nothing then 95% of the NBA would be white? Genes are a thing. Some are better for marathon some are better for sprinting. It would seem africans have a greater prevalence of certain genes unless you are watching something different on TV than I am? Some ethnicities are taller, but that doesn't mean there are not exceptions. Just because Abby Steiner is fast doesn't mean that the entire concept of genes is false. Weird conversation.
I get what you’re saying but the whole East African dominance was majority cultural influence along with doping and that created a narrative that they had some inherent genetic adaptations which we can see now has been disproved. The same should be able to be articulated in sprints, Afro Caribbean, and west African descent people also have this sprinting genetic stereotype which imo isn’t true
So with as much inherent racism that we have in the US, you would think if genes meant nothing then 95% of the NBA would be white? Genes are a thing. Some are better for marathon some are better for sprinting. It would seem africans have a greater prevalence of certain genes unless you are watching something different on TV than I am? Some ethnicities are taller, but that doesn't mean there are not exceptions. Just because Abby Steiner is fast doesn't mean that the entire concept of genes is false. Weird conversation.
Please elaborate one piece of evidence for EA having genes for running. Being skinny doesn’t count as we have seen Jakob and Kerr absolutely dominate
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>From 1932 to 1964, 100m dash was multi-ethnic ...
From 1932 to 1964, 100m dash was multi-ethnic with participants from all over the world.
N Young & Fisher have no world records and no international medals.
Dominate? That's a strong word. From 1960 Olympics through most recent Olympic, men and women from all over the world appear to have legit medal hopes, 200m to 5000m.
From 1932 to 1964, European and North America both had their David Sime-type athletes. If not for WW2 infantrymen deaths, deaths of fit athletic 5'9" to 6'3" (160 to 190) lbs. Eurasian soldiers, we wouldn't have this thread and these questions. Note: David Sime was born, 1936 before WW2 altered gene pool. Millions of athletic men died, WW2.
From 1932 to 1964, 100m dash was multi-ethnic with participants from all over the world.
N Young & Fisher have no world records and no international medals.
Dominate? That's a strong word. From 1960 Olympics through most recent Olympic, men and women from all over the world appear to have legit medal hopes, 200m to 5000m.
From 1932 to 1964, European and North America both had their David Sime-type athletes. If not for WW2 infantrymen deaths, deaths of fit athletic 5'9" to 6'3" (160 to 190) lbs. Eurasian soldiers, we wouldn't have this thread and these questions. Note: David Sime was born, 1936 before WW2 altered gene pool. Millions of athletic men died, WW2.
And were they breaking 10.00??, pretty sure the African continent has been in ruin, Corruption, poverty and famine for decades. Yet still all East African diaspora has produced more global medals than Caucasian in distance, sifan hassan, Arop, Mu, Chelimo, Moh ahmed, Sir mo, nagaye and abdi. Count the medals 🥇