If you combine american fork and herriman are they beating 2021 Newbury park??

Jonathan Commentor wrote:

DUM wrote:

You're a clown for not looking at the Arcadia results. These teams aren't even the same as they were during Cross Country. Simmons could beat Sahlman and the Youngs easy. Especially if the course was Runninglane. Ben Jaster was 5th at Arcadia and ran 8:38, he would be up there too. Evans ran 8:46. Steadman, Hofheins, Beckstrom, and Bradshaw all run under 9 as well. All these guys would be in front of Appleford as he never broke 9. This means that they would put a 6 and 7 in front of Newbury Park's 5. Don't think it wouldn't be close because it would.

I'm a clown...?

No buddy, let me tell you what's what. You're the clown for sitting there on your fat @ss thinking you're a big man for talking sh!t over the internet. If you saw me in real life I guarantee you wouldn't dream of saying that to me. I'd have you folded like a lawn chair. You think this is a game, saying things like this online? You've got another thing coming ret@rd. The 'anonymity' you think this website provides you is no more secure than the shelter Hussein provided terrorists and WMDs. And you can call me D!ck Cheney, because Idgaf about your 'anonymity' and I'm coming to get your @ss. I've got my best people tracking you down IRL as we speak. I'll have you doxed and your position triangulated before the hour's up. Count your time left on this earth pal, because it aint measured in years, its in minutes.

not his fault wrote:

Burnthemdown wrote:

When’s the last time Doug Soles had an athlete become a success in college?

Grind and burn baby

He's been able to get a lot out of his runners. It's not his responsibility how they do in college. If anything, it probably shows he hasn't had the natural talent to work with like some of the others, like NP.

I'd be willing to bet if Soles continued to coach his athletes after they left high school, they would have continued to improve at the same rate, at least, as most college runners.

I've seen his teams in person for a while. They've always had big teams, full of happy kids, that performed extremely well. What else do you want? He doesn't control the training, the culture or the the extra curricular lives of the kids when they go to college Their college success is on them and their college coaches.

Peach Pit wrote:

Jonathan Commentor wrote:

Going by speed ratings from 2023 & 2021...

Colin, Leo, Lex, Aaron

Danny, Beckstrom

Appleford

Tang, Steadman

Martinez

Ogomo, Manwaring, Evans

Doshi

17 to 39. Even if Simmons and Jaster had performed in XC like they did at Arcadia, NP still would have dunked on them.

No team will ever be as good as 2021 Newbury Park.

The likelyhood of two of the most talented guys in the country, both going to the same school, at the same time, and both having a younger brother born within one year/hour of themselves is just incredible.

I'm still beating the drum that the Youngs and Sahlmans aren't as talented as most people think they are. Every school of a similar size has a Young and a Sahlman come through at least once a decade. AF had guys run 4:02/4:03/4:06 all in 2017 without super shoes, and 7 years later, they have guys running 8:34/8:38/8:46/8:58. That's not far off 2022 NP. It's already better than 2020 NP, which had Nico/Jace at 8:32/8:44.

Remember, these guys aren't close to German Fernandez level talents. German was injured for large portions of HS and didn't break out till his senior year. He still ran a CA state XC record, which none of the NP athletes broke, even though they went for it a few times per season, and basically had pacers for a lot of it.

"4:20 isn't fast for a HS boy" is the thing that caused all the controversy, but along with mile times for HS boys, Brosnan also said that we should have more HS girls under 10 for the 2 mile, and more pro guys running sub-13. I don't think it's a coincidence that one of his athletes was the first college kid to break 13/27. I don't think it's a coincidence that he coached Sam McDonnell to a 4:37. I don't think it's a coincidence that he had 7 guys run 8:52 or faster from 4 different families in 4 years.

And I think we're seeing now with AF and Herriman that if the kids think they need to run sub-9, or even sub-8:50, to be fast, they will rise to the occasion. Obviously not all of them, but WAY more than anyone thought before NP came along. I think there's a good chance we see a squad rivaling NP 2021/22 before the end of the decade.

Jonathan Commentor wrote:

DUM wrote:

You're a clown for not looking at the Arcadia results. These teams aren't even the same as they were during Cross Country. Simmons could beat Sahlman and the Youngs easy. Especially if the course was Runninglane. Ben Jaster was 5th at Arcadia and ran 8:38, he would be up there too. Evans ran 8:46. Steadman, Hofheins, Beckstrom, and Bradshaw all run under 9 as well. All these guys would be in front of Appleford as he never broke 9. This means that they would put a 6 and 7 in front of Newbury Park's 5. Don't think it wouldn't be close because it would.

I'm a clown...?

No buddy, let me tell you what's what. You're the clown for sitting there on your fat @ss thinking you're a big man for talking sh!t over the internet. If you saw me in real life I guarantee you wouldn't dream of saying that to me. I'd have you folded like a lawn chair. You think this is a game, saying things like this online? You've got another thing coming ret@rd. The 'anonymity' you think this website provides you is no more secure than the shelter Hussein provided terrorists and WMDs. And you can call me D!ck Cheney, because Idgaf about your 'anonymity' and I'm coming to get your @ss. I've got my best people tracking you down IRL as we speak. I'll have you doxed and your position triangulated before the hour's up. Count your time left on this earth pal, because it aint measured in years, its in minutes.

Fffffff wrote:

Peach Pit wrote:

I'm still beating the drum that the Youngs and Sahlmans aren't as talented as most people think they are. Every school of a similar size has a Young and a Sahlman come through at least once a decade. AF had guys run 4:02/4:03/4:06 all in 2017 without super shoes, and 7 years later, they have guys running 8:34/8:38/8:46/8:58. That's not far off 2022 NP. It's already better than 2020 NP, which had Nico/Jace at 8:32/8:44.

Remember, these guys aren't close to German Fernandez level talents. German was injured for large portions of HS and didn't break out till his senior year. He still ran a CA state XC record, which none of the NP athletes broke, even though they went for it a few times per season, and basically had pacers for a lot of it.

"4:20 isn't fast for a HS boy" is the thing that caused all the controversy, but along with mile times for HS boys, Brosnan also said that we should have more HS girls under 10 for the 2 mile, and more pro guys running sub-13. I don't think it's a coincidence that one of his athletes was the first college kid to break 13/27. I don't think it's a coincidence that he coached Sam McDonnell to a 4:37. I don't think it's a coincidence that he had 7 guys run 8:52 or faster from 4 different families in 4 years.

And I think we're seeing now with AF and Herriman that if the kids think they need to run sub-9, or even sub-8:50, to be fast, they will rise to the occasion. Obviously not all of them, but WAY more than anyone thought before NP came along. I think there's a good chance we see a squad rivaling NP 2021/22 before the end of the decade.

I think there is about zero chance of another school having 4 guys in the top 10 of a national XC meet. Now we can debate how much of a national meet running lane was. But how many schools go something like 1-4,7 at their state meet?

Youngs and Sahlmans might only be at the top of the talent we see every year versus generation but when you 4th runs a 8:02 3k indoors as a one off, you are talking about about some really top end talent depth. Maybe they would have only been 9:00 kids at less demanding schools but who knows.