Am I Training Properly? (800)

You seem to be either aerobically underdeveloped or more than likely just physiologically more of a long sprinter type of mid distance runner. Most high school coaches don’t care(or are completely unaware) of don’t know how to distinguish physiological differences in athletes and suit their training needs.

I don’t care what anyone else says, if you can run 55 in the 400, you can run 2:02 in the 800 (worst case should be 2:04). I have coached dozens of athletes over the years that prove me correct.

I can guess the answer, but I’m guessing if your coach came to you and said your workout is 6x150 in 21 with 4 minutes of rest, you’re probably pretty excited?

Training for these athletes looks very different than most runners if you want to reach maximum potential. Sprinting has to happen regularly, explosive exercises, race pace work nearly year round, the way aerobic capacity can be developed can be vastly different not look like traditional distance runner work, and easy days aren’t just slowly jogging around for 45 minutes.

It’s really sad, one of the great joys of coaching is you can literally design training in any way you like and most coaches just follow a plan in a book or the most boring, least critically thought out plan imaginable.

You're not being trained properly for the 800m but your coach likely doesn't care what you think.

you don't want to hear what i think. given that 1600 response to distance workouts, you are definitely not a distance guy. your 800 is ok but i am not even sure you are an 8 guy at 2:10. where i grew up that's marginal to make varsity, several seconds off making the final from a heat.

your 400 is ok but you aren't even training for that it sounds like.

(1) have you considered making the coach a bet? tell him, let me run with the mile relay sprinters a week then try an 8. if i improve, you let me switch.

(2) you could ask to switch to 400 duty from frustration and then see if you can find a meet to run unattached at 800 right after your season ends, and test whether training like a long sprinter changes things. my response to your times, independent of your workout retelling, was you could use more speed.

(3) based on your deterioration despite distance work from 4-8-16 i am not sure you're anything but a sprinter. but if you want to keep after it then (1) or (2), try and endrun any sort of authoritarianism indirectly.

(4) have you ever tried/considered the 300H? which then steps up to 400H in college. it's an event like the open 400 or the 800 that rewards a mix of speed and endurance, as long as your hurdle form is solid. but it's often kind of a backwater. some coaches staff if it with the same tall, slow 110H kids doubling up, who are solid over the hurdles formwise but can't lay down much of a time.

actually, strictly speaking, you wouldn't have to go unattached, you could compete at something like junior olympics/regionals/the youth club meets.

you either finish the season out their way, but then when HS isswitch to long sprint training and continue competing for the postseason youth meets. compete at 8, see what happens.

or you do the bet/ask to be switched, or run 4 the rest of the season, then try an 8.

i still think if your school or your area is short staffed at 300H, that is a path for a runner like you with some speed and some endurance.

That kind of work just isn’t super beneficial for a 400/800 guy, that kind of work looks like mile/3k or in your teams case 1600/3200 training, at this point in the season you should be doing workouts like 6x150m at 400m pace, 8x200m at 800m pace, or 5-6x300m at 800m pace. It’s time to get sharp, you wanna ideally be in PR 400m shape by the end of a season where you are focusing on the 800m.

TLDR: Your lack of endurance and stamina are what's keeping you from being able to run under 2 or just around 2:01-2:02 (which is what a 55 400m should be able to do) instead of 2:09. You can't hold your speed.

What your coach is doing is a correct approach to what needed to get you faster. One performance limiter for the 800m is the ability to provide energy to the muscle in order for it to contract. Both the 400m and 800m are positive split races meaning that the second half of the race is normally slower than the first half. The main reason is that these races produce a high level of biochemical waste from the reliance on blood lactate as a main energy source for the muscles and the inability to get rid of the waste (the H+ ions) produce from using lactate. This is why your legs feel heavy towards the end of those race (aka "booty lock" or "catching the piano").

Once you tap out your ability to use lactate as an energy source your body relies on it's aerobic system to get you to the finish line. Your aerobic system relies on oxygen to help create energy for the race effort. To create a highly developed aerobic system you need to do workouts like base/easy runs to help build out the infrastructure of the body (bigger heart, bigger lungs, wider blood vessels, more caprillaries, more mitochondria, etc), high end aerobic intervals (like the 1k repeats or high volume 400m) for lactate conditioning (training your ability to produce and processes blood lactate). Having bigger, wider pipes (blood vessels) also helps you get rid of bio waste produced from energy production (CO2, H2O, and H+ ions).So, I hope you did those base/easy runs in the off-season and keep them up during the season. Is the least intensive thing you can do but one of the most important things that can factor in your ability to carry speed through out the race.

I'll also add, if your coach is not doing ANY speed work then, I will agree with you that you are not getting balanced training to address all the requirements for developing the abilities to race the 800m succesfully. At minimum you should be doing 3 types of workouts:

- specific speed: 100m and 200m speed reps interval workouts.
- race pace: 400m and 800m pace workouts or races for these distances at meets
- specific stamina: 1600m, 3200m, 5k pace workout (which it sound like you are doing)

the thing is I’ve never done any workouts like the one you stated besides 600-400-200 and he wanted us to run 78 close to 80 seconds on the first lap of the 600 and the. close in 30 of the last 200 of the 600. Sometime we’ll do 8x300 on for an “easy day”. I’ve also asked if we could cut down on the distance and do more speed and didn’t take me seriously and said “there’s no need in doing more speed. As I’ve never ran close to race pace in a workout.

What you're missing is lactate induced sessions that will allow you to get a feel for an 800 meter race.

For what it’s worth, I would say that 55 second quarter milers running sub 2 is closer to the exception rather than being the rule. Those would be highly aerobically developed runners, which doesn’t sound like how you’ve described yourself. In my experience, sub 2 guys tend to be in the 51-53 range for the quarter. But I would do workouts very similar to the rinaldi workouts. Flying 30’s/short sprints, 200 meter hills at 800/1500 pace (or 300’s on the track at 800 pace or faster) and threshold work (I prefer 800-1k reps for high school kids). 800 meter running draws from several energy systems, which all need to be trained. Certain athletes will deal with the different workouts in different ways depending on the kind of runner they are. Threshold work might have to start as Georgetowns for the more speed inclined 800 runner. And distance guys coming down to the 800 might be benefit from longer 800m pace reps than 300. Figure out your strengths and push into them; identify weaknesses and strengthen them. Work on speed year round.

1200m of 800m pace (600 400 200 or 600 600 or 600 300 300 or 400 400 400 with full rest) is a classic 800 workout across many HS, college, and pro programs. Going through at a 600m 78/80 and then blasting the last 200 does absolutely nothing for you. Like the other poster said, your body needs to get use to the lactate inducing sessions so your body can handle it better in a race. And 800m pace /400m pace sessions help with that, which you are clearly lacking.

Sure your endurance is on the weaker side without a sub 5 1600m for a 2:10 800m runner, and the sessions your coach is having you do should bring that 5:21 down, but you are severely lacking in 800m pace or shorter work.