So we can all agree that Luis Grijalva is a 5000m bronze medalist now, right?

Only his results from October onwards are disqualified, so maybe in spirit but not in reality.

I think that when someone is banned for testing positive they should forfeit all of their medals and be removed from any leaderboards. It would be a much stronger deterrent and would remove any question marks (I often see debates around Abel Kiprop and which medals he should/shouldn’t have). It’s probably too harsh for whereabouts failures, though.

*Asbel

You have to be the change you want to see in the world. That's why I said "can we all agree". That's also why Nick Willis is an Olympic Champion, and why Centro has 2 golds.

I don't think it's too harsh for whereabouts failures. If my boss came looking for me at work, and I wasn't there when I said I was, not only would I not get a second chance, but I would get fined a ton of money because we have government contracts. Katir was clearly trying to avoid getting tested, and there's only one reason he'd be doing that.

+1

Shalane says so too.

How do you know either of them were clean? Centro ran for NOP and Willis had a progression that would never be believed if he was African.

There's a point about Centro and the NOP but come on, Willis ran 1:48/4:01 at 17 years old, and 3:32 at 21. He was an unbelievable talent as a junior and collegiate runner.

I don't, but neither failed a test, and neither had 3 whereabouts failures. You can see posts of mine from years ago arguing that we should accept Katir as clean so long as he's passing tests, and I think a few weeks ago I said we should let Katir fight it out and give his side of the story before deciding whether or not he's dirty, because we shouldn't jump to conclusions when someone's livelihood is on the line. I completely stand by all of that, and now that I've seen his best arguments, I'm completely ready to toss out everything he's done, because it's clear he was doping.

I don't think Katir's progression was all too dissimilar from Nuguse or Hocker, but if the only evidence for doping is "I don't think someone could run that fast clean", I don't think it's worth speculating. I said the same thing about Kiptum after Valencia/London/Chicago. Even people with WAY more circumstantial evidence, like Addy Wiley, I still think that as long as they're passing tests (and not missing them), we should assume they're just as clean as everyone else. I think we should make standards stricter, fund more drug testing, and do as much as we can to protect the integrity of the sport, but lobbying doping allegations at people just because they run fast is damaging imo.

Nick Willis's progression? What, running 3.32 at age 21 when he got into a mega Golden League field in Rome packed with the worlds best milers pulling him along and then "progressing" 3 seconds across 10 seasons of consistent low 3.30 running? Yeah okay man.

I mean Centro got a silver in Daegu after his junior year in college. He was a (the?) top recruit too coming out of HS. If you search Centro in the Letsrun search, you can see people realizing he was gonna be great by his sophomore year of college (I think he ran 3:36?). I think Willis is a bit more trustworthy just by virtue of being with Warhurst, but you're comparing 2 spectacular junior runners who had years of consistent progress and turned into Olympic champs.

I don't know if Centro doped, and I am not saying he wasn't a big talent (although I'd argue Willis showed more talent at a younger age), but NOP was a shady organization and the original commenter did have valid reasons to bring that up.

Why are only his results from October onwards disqualified? The missed tests occurred between February 28 and October 10. The world championships were in August. All his results between February 10 and October 28 should be disqualified.

Whilst I agree, those are the rules for whereabouts failure. It's a standard ban for two years (can vary a bit depending on the circumstances), starting after the Notice of Allegation/Provisional Suspension (a few months after the third failure), plus DQ for all races between the third failure and the notice.

Sadly, no. He won’t receive a bronze medal for it.

Would love to see retro-suspensions a more serious thing.

If a medalist EVER fails a test, the medal ceremony should be redone at the next WC/OG with the appropriate medalists on the appropriate podium as well as the dopers national flag display with an X across is.

So if the suspension doesn’t start from the first missed test, an athlete that knows they will retire can just dope away in the final months leading to a championship?

If you retroactively cancel all a doper's medals, probably half or more of all medals will end up canceled one day.

What would be the point of even having a medal ceremony? What's the medal about? Glory is fleeting, the medal is a prop while that lasts. Years later, nobody really cares.

Willis was an UNBELIEVABLE talent?

is that really what you meant to imply?

And why the doping cheater Centro has zero golds, and should be in prison.

I agree, I can only wish that Mario Garcia Romo gets upgraded to bronze from Oregon 2022

Yes, cheater Katir should be stripped of his medal and given to Luis