The article was initially entiteld, "Zane Robertston!!!!" but we changed it to make it more descriptive. Here is our article on his bust and fake excuses (he said he went to a hospital for a COvid-19 vaccine but they gave him EPO instead) which points out that in 2016 he expressed frutation at the amount of doping in the sport:
The only stench here is the one left by your rage.
The posters you have been addressing have not denied doping exists in Kenya. Your rage blinds you. This thread is about Zane Robinson, a New Zealander, who doped.
Whether he got the EPO in Ethiopia, in Kenya or in Auckland is irrelevant, because he could get it in any of those places. The relevant part is that he doped, he lied, and we will probably never know where he got the EPO.
He has probably been doping for years and got EPO wherever he went.
You are trying to turn this into a thread about doping in Kenya, and Kenyan dopers. You have plenty of threads for that.
Seriously dude you have to very ill to get EPO in Auckland. With State controlled health systems if Zane Robertson got a dirty doctor in Hamilton to write him a prescription for EPO. A chemist is going to separately red flag this as suspicious. In short it is just not happening in NZ. In the US, Mexico, Kenya or Russia yes but not in NZ. There's checks and balances.
You can get heroin in Auckland. I'm sure you can get EPO too if you really want to.
Seriously dude you have to very ill to get EPO in Auckland. With State controlled health systems if Zane Robertson got a dirty doctor in Hamilton to write him a prescription for EPO. A chemist is going to separately red flag this as suspicious. In short it is just not happening in NZ. In the US, Mexico, Kenya or Russia yes but not in NZ. There's checks and balances.
You can get heroin in Auckland. I'm sure you can get EPO too if you really want to.
It appears no one wants to. No New Zealand athlete has been busted for EPO on their own shores in the more than 30 years the drug has been available.
Excerpt: "Aprot was among 20 sportsmen and women that ADAK provisionally suspended for doping rules violation early January this year". On its own that's 20 in less than 13 weeks, so an average of over 1.5 per week.
Obviously it will be for doping that occurred previously, and they didn't all dope in January, but there's always a time lag between somebody being caught and sanctioned, so I think claims of 2 a week are not as outlandish as several have claimed.
Sure -- 20 if you want to count Judo, Body-building, and Football. If you dig a little further, at "nation.africa", this 20 comes from a list starting ADAK started compiling from July 2022, as ADAK had to get through legal appeals before they could publish the names, for the first time in Jan. 2023, after they decided to implement a 2021 rule change that permits publishing names of suspended athletes.
If we consider just athletics, from July 2022, to Jan 07, 2023, we have 15 athletes over 27 weeks, or 0.56 athletes per week (or extending until today -- 15 athletes over 39 weeks or 0.4 per week).
I don't know at what point a claim becomes outlandish, but claiming 2 athletes per week are suspended doesn't seem particularly well informed.
The old "almost only one a week" is popped argument again. That so reduces the scale of the Kenyan doping problem, doesn't it? The article above simply reinforced that doping is throughout Kenyan sport. Their dopers are being busted like falling rain. Good. Any attempt to minimize the seriousness of their problem is risible. But that's what you do.
All these Kenyan cheats getting busted for peds other than EPO just shows how difficult it still is to detect EPO, and how unlikely it is that Zane Robertson would get popped on his first time using it.
It also shows that there continue to be drugs developed and available that will do a similar job of enhancing performance. For antidoping, doping is a constantly moving target.
Hello. Sorry to confuse you. I am never of the two persons you mentioned. Would you like to comment on the figures at all?
He won't. They are figures that can't be explained away. He is also one of those who prefer to think all criticism of Kenyan doping comes from one person alone. He is wrong.
Many people are "criticising" Kenyan doping, jack is Coevett and you have lied, as so often.
You claimed that so far in 2023 at least two Kenyans were busted per week - basted ONLY by (for sure also wrong) dates from 2022.
There is doping all over the world, in any sport. That the date which we have never can tell the full story is obvious to any observer (no positives from Ethiopia for example).
You are lying in almost any post and you are stupid.
Sure -- 20 if you want to count Judo, Body-building, and Football. If you dig a little further, at "nation.africa", this 20 comes from a list starting ADAK started compiling from July 2022, as ADAK had to get through legal appeals before they could publish the names, for the first time in Jan. 2023, after they decided to implement a 2021 rule change that permits publishing names of suspended athletes.
If we consider just athletics, from July 2022, to Jan 07, 2023, we have 15 athletes over 27 weeks, or 0.56 athletes per week (or extending until today -- 15 athletes over 39 weeks or 0.4 per week).
I don't know at what point a claim becomes outlandish, but claiming 2 athletes per week are suspended doesn't seem particularly well informed.
The old "almost only one a week" is popped argument again. That so reduces the scale of the Kenyan doping problem, doesn't it? The article above simply reinforced that doping is throughout Kenyan sport. Their dopers are being busted like falling rain. Good. Any attempt to minimize the seriousness of their problem is risible. But that's what you do.
Curious you say "scale of the problem", when you have so much difficulty putting a number on it.
I don't minimize it, but present the reality by exposing imaginary exaggerations. This seems appropriate when some posters say ignorantly ridiculous things like "This year at least two Kenyans are popped each week" after claiming for all of 2022 "1 a week", and now another poster says "claims of 2 a week are not as outlandish as several have claimed", using an article that started counting 6 months earlier.
20 suspensions over 6 months is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed, but why do you feel this irrational need to suggest the problem is twice as big, or more than 4 times as big as officially documented? These lies and exagerrations are unnecessarily hurting the sport.
Here's an opportunity for you to demonstrate honesty and integrity. Will you admit your previous exagerrated claims of 1 a week or more than 2 a week were just plain wrong? Now that you have seen more accurate figures, will you provide more accurate statements in the future?
This post was edited 14 minutes after it was posted.
The old "almost only one a week" is popped argument again. That so reduces the scale of the Kenyan doping problem, doesn't it? The article above simply reinforced that doping is throughout Kenyan sport. Their dopers are being busted like falling rain. Good. Any attempt to minimize the seriousness of their problem is risible. But that's what you do.
Curious you say "scale of the problem", when you have so much difficulty putting a number on it.
I don't minimize it, but present the reality by exposing imaginary exaggerations. This seems appropriate when some posters say ignorantly ridiculous things like "This year at least two Kenyans are popped each week" after claiming for all of 2022 "1 a week", and now another poster says "claims of 2 a week are not as outlandish as several have claimed", using an article that started counting 6 months earlier.
20 suspensions over 6 months is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed, but why do you feel this irrational need to suggest the problem is twice as big, or more than 4 times as big as officially documented? These lies and exagerrations are unnecessarily hurting the sport.
Here's an opportunity for you to demonstrate honesty and integrity. Will you admit your previous exagerrated claims of 1 a week or more than 2 a week were just plain wrong? Now that you have seen more accurate figures, will you provide more accurate statements in the future?
Let's really get down to the important question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or, if you prefer, does Kenya really have a doping problem if only one but not two athletes are getting busted every week? It's hard to exaggerate a disease like Kenyan doping. But you choose not to see any symptoms at all.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
He won't. They are figures that can't be explained away. He is also one of those who prefer to think all criticism of Kenyan doping comes from one person alone. He is wrong.
Many people are "criticising" Kenyan doping, jack is Coevett and you have lied, as so often.
You claimed that so far in 2023 at least two Kenyans were busted per week - basted ONLY by (for sure also wrong) dates from 2022.
There is doping all over the world, in any sport. That the date which we have never can tell the full story is obvious to any observer (no positives from Ethiopia for example).
You are lying in almost any post and you are stupid.
Since you don't read very well, here it is again from a previous post in the thread.
You may notice my posts specifically based on Australian running. What would that imply? Believe what you want, why would I care about you? So let's stick to the issues children - is there a sweeping doping problem in Kenyan distance running? If you believe no, fine.
Many people are "criticising" Kenyan doping, jack is Coevett and you have lied, as so often.
You claimed that so far in 2023 at least two Kenyans were busted per week - basted ONLY by (for sure also wrong) dates from 2022.
There is doping all over the world, in any sport. That the date which we have never can tell the full story is obvious to any observer (no positives from Ethiopia for example).
You are lying in almost any post and you are stupid.
Since you don't read very well, here it is again from a previous post in the thread.
Here's an opportunity for you to demonstrate honesty and integrity. Will you admit your previous exagerrated claims of 1 a week or more than 2 a week were just plain wrong? Now that you have seen more accurate figures, will you provide more accurate statements in the future?
Let's really get down to the important question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or, if you prefer, does Kenya really have a doping problem if only one but not two athletes are getting busted every week? It's hard to exaggerate a disease like Kenyan doping. But you choose not to see any symptoms at all.
That was your chance to demonstrate honesty, integrity, humility, and contrition, and to go forward with more accurate figures.
"Aprot was among 20 sportsmen and women that ADAK provisionally suspended for doping rules violation early January this year."
"Over 40 Kenyan athletes were suspended for various doping offences last year.'
Yes, that's right, you have lied. As so often.
But you show you can't read. 20 athletes suspended in a month is about 1.5 per week, as was pointed out by the poster. Your lying is self-lying - and it is limitless.
Let's really get down to the important question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or, if you prefer, does Kenya really have a doping problem if only one but not two athletes are getting busted every week? It's hard to exaggerate a disease like Kenyan doping. But you choose not to see any symptoms at all.
That was your chance to demonstrate honesty, integrity, humility, and contrition, and to go forward with more accurate figures.
But you chose none of the above.
"Honesty, integrity, humility and contrition"? That - from you? From one who says he had to "learn" sympathy for women. (I have news for you - one who has to "learn" these things never understands what he thinks he has "learned"). A lecture on character from you is as meaningful as a lecture on honesty from Bernie Madoff. Or on sporting ethics from Alberto Salazar. You are quite the biggest fake who has ever posted here.
Excerpt: "Aprot was among 20 sportsmen and women that ADAK provisionally suspended for doping rules violation early January this year". On its own that's 20 in less than 13 weeks, so an average of over 1.5 per week.
Obviously it will be for doping that occurred previously, and they didn't all dope in January, but there's always a time lag between somebody being caught and sanctioned, so I think claims of 2 a week are not as outlandish as several have claimed.
Sure -- 20 if you want to count Judo, Body-building, and Football. If you dig a little further, at "nation.africa", this 20 comes from a list starting ADAK started compiling from July 2022, as ADAK had to get through legal appeals before they could publish the names, for the first time in Jan. 2023, after they decided to implement a 2021 rule change that permits publishing names of suspended athletes.
If we consider just athletics, from July 2022, to Jan 07, 2023, we have 15 athletes over 27 weeks, or 0.56 athletes per week (or extending until today -- 15 athletes over 39 weeks or 0.4 per week).
I don't know at what point a claim becomes outlandish, but claiming 2 athletes per week are suspended doesn't seem particularly well informed.
rekrunner, the last I checked participants of judo, body-building, and football all count as athletes. I believe the original claim didn't specify runners as you seem to be trying to narrow it down to. Furthermore, I'd already acknowledged that they wouldn't have all doped in January as 'there's always a time lag between somebody being caught and sanctioned'.
Ergo, the original claim of 2 athletes per week was not outlandish, as the actual official figure was over 1.5.
another poster says "claims of 2 a week are not as outlandish as several have claimed", using an article that started counting 6 months earlier.
So just to clarify, that unless the news of a positive is released straightaway then that bust doesn't count to the total in your mind?
If you want to know how many positives there were in Q1 then maybe look for figures released in Q3/Q4. Again, time lag in reporting. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
Ergo, the original claim of 2 athletes per week was not outlandish, as the actual official figure was over 1.5.
This was Armstrong's original claim:
Armstrong: "This year at least two Kenyans are popped each week. I would include Robertson amongst their tally."
Don't you think it was meant by him just for athletics? Or - even more likely - just for distance running?
At least two each week leads to around 2.5 per week. What's the correct number? So far nobody has given this number. 0.5?
Armstrong has lied - as so often.
I fail to see where it says 'two Kenyan runners per week', distance or otherwise. Obviously you can guess that that's what he meant, but equally somebody else could guess that a lot of the posts on here are attempting to minimise the extent of doping in Kenya by changing the criteria against which it is being quantified; e.g. only athletics, or only people who are reported within a day or two of being busted, or only when the wind is blowing from the south, or only if the bust happens at the same time as 5 people jump into Chebloch Gorge in quick succession, etc.
Armstronglivs may be hard work to 'discuss' with, and has his own agenda that is the opposite of rekrunner/El Keniano, etc, but if you're going to argue against what he has said then you have to use what he has stated, not your interpretation.
Armstrong: "This year at least two Kenyans are popped each week. I would include Robertson amongst their tally."
Don't you think it was meant by him just for athletics? Or - even more likely - just for distance running?
At least two each week leads to around 2.5 per week. What's the correct number? So far nobody has given this number. 0.5?
Armstrong has lied - as so often.
I fail to see where it says 'two Kenyan runners per week', distance or otherwise. Obviously you can guess that that's what he meant, but equally somebody else could guess that a lot of the posts on here are attempting to minimise the extent of doping in Kenya by changing the criteria against which it is being quantified; e.g. only athletics, or only people who are reported within a day or two of being busted, or only when the wind is blowing from the south, or only if the bust happens at the same time as 5 people jump into Chebloch Gorge in quick succession, etc.
Armstronglivs may be hard work to 'discuss' with, and has his own agenda that is the opposite of rekrunner/El Keniano, etc, but if you're going to argue against what he has said then you have to use what he has stated, not your interpretation.
Great point Jdth!
Why assume that he was talking about sport? Each week at least 2.5 Kenyans were popped this year - including politics, crime (not that those are two completely different areas), family and so on.
We can agree then that Armstrong made an absolutely correct statement!
I fail to see where it says 'two Kenyan runners per week', distance or otherwise. Obviously you can guess that that's what he meant, but equally somebody else could guess that a lot of the posts on here are attempting to minimise the extent of doping in Kenya by changing the criteria against which it is being quantified; e.g. only athletics, or only people who are reported within a day or two of being busted, or only when the wind is blowing from the south, or only if the bust happens at the same time as 5 people jump into Chebloch Gorge in quick succession, etc.
Armstronglivs may be hard work to 'discuss' with, and has his own agenda that is the opposite of rekrunner/El Keniano, etc, but if you're going to argue against what he has said then you have to use what he has stated, not your interpretation.
Great point Jdth!
Why assume that he was talking about sport? Each week at least 2.5 Kenyans were popped this year - including politics, crime (not that those are two completely different areas), family and so on.
We can agree then that Armstrong made an absolutely correct statement!
Kenya has been p*ssing doping busts for years and you want to argue about the numbers ("is it two or just one a week?") as though that changes the fact it has one of the worst "doping diseases" and incurs more doping violations in a month than other countries do in a decade. But the disease is certainly enabled by the minimizers and deniers on these threads. They are as corrupt as those they seek to defend.
rekrunner, the last I checked participants of judo, body-building, and football all count as athletes. I believe the original claim didn't specify runners as you seem to be trying to narrow it down to. Furthermore, I'd already acknowledged that they wouldn't have all doped in January as 'there's always a time lag between somebody being caught and sanctioned'.
Ergo, the original claim of 2 athletes per week was not outlandish, as the actual official figure was over 1.5.
They are indeed athletes, but I just note the ambiguity because this is a running site, concerned with the sport of athletics. I made the calculations for the runners, but you can repeat them for all athletes if you want.
But your unofficial calculation of "over 1.5 per week" simply uses the wrong timeframe in the denominator, as it was not specified in the article you linked. I made the extra effort to find out the correct time period corresponding to these 20 suspensions.
"Nation.africa" explained earlier, in a January 6, 2023 article, announcing the release of the names:
"(ADAK CEO) Shibutse said since the start of their calendar in July last year, they have suspended 20 sportsmen and women mostly from athletics with a couple coming from football and body-building."
"Shibutse revealed that they will before the end of this week release names of those under suspension."
These are the 20 athletes announced and named in another "Nation.africa" article on January 7, 2023. If you want to say 20 athletes counting all sports, you have to start counting "since the start of their calendar in July last year". Then these figures range from 0.51-0.74 Kenyan athletes suspended per week (whether you stop counting weeks at January 7, or at end of March).
So whether you count "official" busts, suspensions, or sanctions, there is no "official" way to arrive at 1.5 to 2 Kenyans busted/suspended/sanctioned per week.
