Kara Goucher Alleges Alberto Salazar Sexually Assaulted Her in Her New Book

What she described was not a massage; it went beyond that. It was a sexual assault. If you didn't know that then you have no idea what you are talking about when you describe what occurred to her as "inappropriate" and you have no idea what you are expressing "sympathy" for. You are so in the dark you shouldn't be on this thread.

Since you didn't read the thread title before posting for page after page, here it is:

"Kara Goucher Alleges Alberto Salazar Sexually Assaulted Her in Her New Book".

How does a "sexual assault", which is a criminal act, become reduced to the indeterminate description of "inappropriate conduct", which isn't unlawful - and could be anything (like breaking wind in public)?

In what world is the victim of a sexual assault "comfortable" with it - as you suggested she might be, even though she made an official complaint about it to SafeSport?

If she was "comfortable" with it, the necessary inference is that she consented to it in advance and it was therefore not a sexual assault. She therefore wouldn't have made a complaint. But she did. And yet you still find reason in that utterly untenable view that she might have been "comfortable" with it to withhold your "sympathy" on that basis.

It would be reassuring for your daughter or wife to know that if they were sexually assaulted by someone they had a right to trust that the best you could come up with is that they were subject to "inappropriate conduct". Such an expression of outrage. Well - no. Further, you suggest they might be comfortable with it (like Kara could have been) and so not deserving of your sympathy. Good God. They have my every sympathy. They have the misfortune to be related to you.

And in all this, not a word of condemnation or even criticism for the perpetrator, who has earned himself a lifetime ban for his abusive conduct against his young female athletes. You have elevated misogyny to an art.

Mr. Pot is back. Once again I note that the thread title includes "in Her New Book", and "in Her New Book", Kara says many other inappropriate things that Salazar did that made her uncomfortable.

But wait, what? According to you, who lives to be bound by the thread title, the "sexual assault" is merely an allegation in a new book?

And now you are talking about a crime? Was Salazar actually charged and convicted of a crime against Kara? I thought it was just a lifetime ban from SafeSport, a US organization that does not apply the criminal standard and has no authority to prosecute crimes.

Not sure why you want to bring my wife and daughter into a thread about Kara and her new book -- is that also somewhere in the subject line? -- but sure, in a different scenario, with different facts, and different persons, involving a crime, I would also react differently.

Kara alleges a sexual assault occurred. Her description of what happened is of the nature of a sexual assault. A sexual assault is by definition a crime. That is how serious it is. It is not your feeble minimizing description of "inappropriate conduct". But you have done nothing but defend Salazar in every thread he is discussed. That is where your true sympathy lies - not with Goucher.

I surely don't doubt that Kara "alleges" the "sexual assault". "In her new book" (see thread title) she "alleges the sexual assaults" (see thread title), as well as many other inappropriate incidents that made her uncomfortable (see her new book and various interviews with Kara and writeups about Kara and the new book). I don't know if Kara ever called it "sexual assault" or "rape", whenever she described the two massages where fingers went where they shouldn't have been going. Collectively, I called all these things "inappropriate" -- just like Kara. If it minimizes "sexual assault" (see thread title) to also talk about topless cryobaths, public weigh-ins in your underwear, crude jokes about butts and boobs, etc. then you should direct your faux-outrage at the victim Kara, and not me for sympathizing with her for all of the "inappropriate" conduct that "Kara alleges" (see thread title) "in her new book" (see thread title).

"Defend Salazar"? I have never defended any conduct actually found to violate any rules, or laws. If anything, my sympathy lies with separating facts, from baseless claims, and fiction. I can see how that annoys you to the point that you feel you need fabricate all these lies about me.

You reason like a child. A "sexual assault" is defined by the acts which occurred. It doesn't depend on the victim (or you or I) using that term. If that were so there would be no sexual assault of children too young to understand what it occurred and how it is defined by law. Ironically, that also appears to be you.

So many "baseless claims" made about Salazar, a coach disgraced and banned for doping infractions and now also banned for life from coaching roles because of his abuse of young athletes he coached. It is telling whom you choose to defend and why. You so wish people wouldn't make up things about such a fine fella.

Well I am the child of my parents, and I'm glad we both agree that I use reason.

I don't doubt that "sexual assault" is clearly defined. But this journey into distraction is no longer relevant to anything I originally said. What is disappointing, is that you still don't seem to, nor want to, understand that the initial post to which you chose to reply, notwithstanding the subject line, was not strictly about the "sexual assault", but about a whole collection of uncomfortable incidents described first hand by the victim Kara herself in her new book, and related interviews. Whatever "sexual assault" is or isn't, I gave Kara all my sympathy for all of the incidents of sexual assault, for the public weigh-ins in underwear, for the topless cyrobaths, for crude jokes about butts and boobs, for the intimate questions about her sex life with Adam, and for anything else in the book, or out of it, that was considered by Kara's judgement as inappropriate and making her feel uncomfortable. It was a rather broad expression of moral support for the victim where she needs it the most. Only a twisted and fractured kaleidoscope mind loosely coupled to reality can make the multiple steps of the tortuous journey required to arrive at a conclusion that the real take-home message here is a hidden assertion of a possibility that, contrary to her claims of discomfort, Kara could find sexual assault comfortable, from an original statement that said neither "sexual assault" nor "comfortable". The creepy misogynistic monster you found was one you created in your fantastic mind.

And once again, contrary to your repeated lie, I have not defended and do not defend Salazar for any conduct found to violate rules or laws. When I say I sympathize with separating facts, from baseless claims, and fiction, this applies to virtually any topic, from global warming to covid vaccines to flat earth to moon landings to the contents of WADA and AIU reports, to causes of elite performance. Some of these claims will have a basis in reality, some will not, and some is just faith and fan-fiction.

"Reasoning like a child" is not "using reason"; it is the opposite. You can be counted on to not get that.

The rest of your comment is mere invention. You said none of that earlier in the thread. In your earlier comments you consistently failed to identify a sexual assault as anything more serious than "inappropriate behaviour" and even ventured she might have been "comfortable" with it, in which case she wouldn't require your "sympathy". You couldn't have been plainer. You also showed who you are.

You do seem like a lifelong expert on reasoning like a child.

But not only is my comment not mere invention, it is pretty much the only thing I've said consistently said throughout this whole thread. It is you who awkwardly equated "inappropriate coach-athlete situations" with "sexual assault", apparently for the express purpose of arguing that they are not equal, apparently not reading my post with a genuine understanding of the words and their meaning when put together in the order I put them, in the context which they were placed, but rather reading the thread subject line as if all 22 pages and 429 posts must be constrained by that singular thought, in order to fabricate a bunch of false conclusions of your own invention, substituting pieces of reality with your own failed misunderstandings, to create a monster that wouldn't otherwise exist.

I hope I showed myself as someone sympathetic towards a victim for a collection of uncomfortable and inappropriate coach-athlete situations. I agree it couldn't have been any plainer, but somehow you can always be counted on not to get that.

There should be a Report Post option for “Yet another armstronglivs and rekrunner thread hijack”.

That is a more than fair comment. I feel like the guy who slowed down at a freak accident and couldn't stop staring in disbelief, instead of moving on, and letting others move on.

In this thread, I gave a statement of sympathy, and that would have and should have started and ended there. I still don't understand the rationality that transformed a statement of complete sympathy for the victim, which I dared to condition on how the victim felt about the many "situations" she herself described, often using the same words, by doubly misconstruing it such that the very first reflex was to call me a "misogynist". And then Armstronglivs predictably argued for a dozen or so pages, that plain words mean something else, and that doubly misconstruing the statement is the best, if not only, interpretation. I can't completely blame him, as it does take two to tango, and he is clearly not the adult in the room.

I don't feel all that bad though as I am merely exercising my right to defend myself from personal attacks, especially when based on fantasies. If Armstronglivs could respect the rules of posting and refrain from personal insults, and even better live up to his own high standard of just responding to the subject line, no more threads would be hijacked.

That is my guarantee.

What is conspicuous is that most of everything you have written here has been in defence of your own injured ego, far outstripping anything you had to say about Goucher and Salazar. As always with you, the subject of any discussion always becomes you.

I can't help it if you cannot stay on topic.

You make yourself the topic.

On the contrary, my post was about Kara and her new book. But you have gone way out of your way in a personal mission to single me out and make the last dozen pages about me. Virtually every response you have posted in the last dozen or so pages since, by the way, I first expressed complete sympathy for the victim, has been your own personal judgement about me, if not a direct personal attack.

If I'm wrong, tell me what you have contributed to the subject of this thread, in how many posts, since my first post, and then compare that to how many times you have posted, responding to me, about me, in order to cast your own personal judgement, not on things I said, but on things I didn't say.

Still writing about yourself. Such a wounded ego.

So you can't show me I'm wrong. Instead you play another one of your childish games, and make yet another post about me, rather than Kara.

I'm sure if you accuse me of a wounded ego, this is just more self-projection. Maybe your ego is wounded from all the years of having your most strongly held fantasies debunked and contradicted by real world facts.

Meanwhile, my sympathy for the victim Kara, for all the inappropriate coach-athlete situations she wrote about in her new book, and in recent interviews about the book, that made her feel uncomfortable, remains unchanged. That should have ended where it started.

Kara, who? Do you remember what the thread is about once you feel the need to defend yourself? One word of "sympathy" for her (but never conceding she was sexually assaulted; only "inappropriate coach-athlete situations") and endless posts expressing your indignation at being seen for what you are. You are so self-absorbed you do not even see your "sympathy" is about you; it is about how you feel and says nothing about her or even Salazar. It would be irrelevant to her - especially coming from someone who says he "learned" to feel sympathy for women. That must have been so hard for you!

It still seems very much like it is you who is absorbed with me, and do not see it -- that is classic self-projection. There were many others in this thread who called Kara a doper and a liar and even a smitten lover turned woman scorned, but you chose to focus all your energy on me, finding their posts more acceptable than mine daring to give Kara "all my sympathy".

I think I remembered "Kara, who" in the couple dozen posts that explained I was talking about the many situations Kara wrote about in her book and said in interviews. I also acknowledged the SafeSport ruling of "sexual assault" (or did they say "sexual misconduct"?) when I pointed out they don't use the criminal standard.

But, for a simple statement expressing my sympathy for the victim for her expressed discomfort in many situations, I was instantly labeled a misogynist, a monster, a creep, and much more, and apparently that is not justifiable cause for expressing indignation? It doesn't bother me too much because I know the world is full of crazy nobodies who feel more confident hiding behind their keyboard under an anonymous handle.