I found out after high school several kids on the football team were doping, same as my college track team. Its almost too easy too dope....anyone been to the pharmacies in mexico lately? You can buy a drink and roids at the airport before your flight.
This drug discussion is nuts. Jim Ryun ran a 3:59 flat mile when he was 6 months older than Myers is now, and nobody says that Ryun was doped. Now Myers runs a 3:55.4 that isn't much below Ryun's mark, when you adjust for the fact that Ryun was running in leather shoes on dirt. One second faster, perhaps, or 1 1/2 seconds. Pretty close.
So Myers can't be slightly faster than Ryun at a slightly younger age, when Myers has probably been running for a decade now and Ryun was only 2 1/2 years into his running career, unless Myers has been doping? That is nuts. It really is.
Ryun didn't run sub-4 at 16. Nor do the shoes etc make 4-5 secs difference over a mile.
This drug discussion is nuts. Jim Ryun ran a 3:59 flat mile when he was 6 months older than Myers is now, and nobody says that Ryun was doped. Now Myers runs a 3:55.4 that isn't much below Ryun's mark, when you adjust for the fact that Ryun was running in leather shoes on dirt. One second faster, perhaps, or 1 1/2 seconds. Pretty close.
So Myers can't be slightly faster than Ryun at a slightly younger age, when Myers has probably been running for a decade now and Ryun was only 2 1/2 years into his running career, unless Myers has been doping? That is nuts. It really is.
Ryun didn't run sub-4 at 16. Nor do the shoes etc make 4-5 secs difference over a mile.
Loving this debate!
The better question IMO is would Myers at age 75 years old in 2072 beat a cryogenically frozen Jim Ryun at 75 if they did a three race series, one in Australia, one in Kansas and one in Mexico City.
Assuming Ryun could shake off the ice and rust, and was still coached by Ritz (89 years old in 2072) and there were super shoes still, I'd take the long-legged Kansan. I think they both win on home soil, but Ryun takes it in Mexico City because he learned his lesson in 1968. He would at least do some time trials for prep in Boulder with Ritz and Yared Nuguse (age 72).
Ryun ran sub 4 a year and a half after he began training, not two and a half years. The shoes certainly do seem to provide 4 - 5 seconds over a mile. Look at the indoor season so far now that the shoes are widely available. Yes, we know the Africans cheat like mad and are allowed to get away with a lot because of woke, PC officials and the gullible minds of so many Westerners, but the same really isn't happening with Western runners. They really are tested. The kid is good. Let's see if he keeps improving.
Ryun ran sub 4 a year and a half after he began training, not two and a half years. The shoes certainly do seem to provide 4 - 5 seconds over a mile. Look at the indoor season so far now that the shoes are widely available. Yes, we know the Africans cheat like mad and are allowed to get away with a lot because of woke, PC officials and the gullible minds of so many Westerners, but the same really isn't happening with Western runners. They really are tested. The kid is good. Let's see if he keeps improving.
Ryun did not run sub-4 at 16 or anywhere near it. The shoes do not allow for an improvement of 4-5 seconds in a mile - there is no accepted official data that demonstrates that. (If it were so the shoes would likely have been banned). To argue that kind of improvement is to say that in today's shoes El G could have run 3.38-39 for the mile (and 3.21 for the 1500) and Komen would have run 7.12 for the 3k. We are truly in the realms of absurdity.
Unfortunately Australian coaches have a track record of grinding young middle distance talent into the dirt. Hopefully this young man is being brought along carefully. Is he doping? How knows these days? I hope not.
If you were going to dope, Australia and in particular Canberra, home of the Australian Institute of Sport, would be the last place you'd do it. Seems there are people getting deep in to the realms of fantasy in more ways than one.
Agree, hope he is bought along carefully, how many juniors have there been who are going to be the next big thing?
The Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) mission is to lead and enable a united high performance (HP) system that supports Australian athletes/teams to achieve podium success.
Ryun ran sub 4 a year and a half after he began training, not two and a half years. The shoes certainly do seem to provide 4 - 5 seconds over a mile. Look at the indoor season so far now that the shoes are widely available. Yes, we know the Africans cheat like mad and are allowed to get away with a lot because of woke, PC officials and the gullible minds of so many Westerners, but the same really isn't happening with Western runners. They really are tested. The kid is good. Let's see if he keeps improving.
You're making it sound like there was one pair of spikes between the 1960s and 2020s
This drug discussion is nuts. Jim Ryun ran a 3:59 flat mile when he was 6 months older than Myers is now, and nobody says that Ryun was doped. Now Myers runs a 3:55.4 that isn't much below Ryun's mark, when you adjust for the fact that Ryun was running in leather shoes on dirt. One second faster, perhaps, or 1 1/2 seconds. Pretty close.
So Myers can't be slightly faster than Ryun at a slightly younger age, when Myers has probably been running for a decade now and Ryun was only 2 1/2 years into his running career, unless Myers has been doping? That is nuts. It really is.
Ryun didn't run sub-4 at 16. Nor do the shoes etc make 4-5 secs difference over a mile.
I am old enough to have run most of my races on dirt. Simply moving from that to the first generation of artificial tracks was worth 1-2 seconds per mile. Then you consider the effect of next generation artificial tracks and shoes, and darn right it's a big darn difference. I doubt that any 1500 meter runner today could break 3:31 for 1500 meters running under Jim Ryun's condition. Highly doubt.
Ryun didn't run sub-4 at 16. Nor do the shoes etc make 4-5 secs difference over a mile.
I am old enough to have run most of my races on dirt. Simply moving from that to the first generation of artificial tracks was worth 1-2 seconds per mile. Then you consider the effect of next generation artificial tracks and shoes, and darn right it's a big darn difference. I doubt that any 1500 meter runner today could break 3:31 for 1500 meters running under Jim Ryun's condition. Highly doubt.
There will be some difference but there is no data that proves that improvements in tracks and shoes will put it in the magnitude of several seconds over a mile. To obtain that you would have to put Ryun of '67 on a modern track in today's shoes, or require Ingebrigtsen to run in Ryun's conditions. El G was running in the "old shoes". He's still several seconds faster than anyone today.
Those comparisons are not science but only estimates. I see nothing in Tuohy's running that matches a 16 year old running a 3.55 mile.
Zola Budd 15:01, age 17. 14:48 a year later.
I don't see 14.48 at 18 by a woman to be equivalent to a 16 year old male running a 3.55 mile. We probably need to stick to comparing males with other males.
If you were going to dope, Australia and in particular Canberra, home of the Australian Institute of Sport, would be the last place you'd do it. Seems there are people getting deep in to the realms of fantasy in more ways than one.
Agree, hope he is bought along carefully, how many juniors have there been who are going to be the next big thing?
I don't see 14.48 at 18 by a woman to be equivalent to a 16 year old male running a 3.55 mile. We probably need to stick to comparing males with other males.
Well, both were open World Records, so there is that. And the IAAF puts 3:55 for men as 15:15 for women. It's pretty clear that Budd and Ryun are in a special stratosphere for young athletes, along with Cain and Decker, and of course Jakob.
I don't see 14.48 at 18 by a woman to be equivalent to a 16 year old male running a 3.55 mile. We probably need to stick to comparing males with other males.
Well, both were open World Records, so there is that. And the IAAF puts 3:55 for men as 15:15 for women. It's pretty clear that Budd and Ryun are in a special stratosphere for young athletes, along with Cain and Decker, and of course Jakob.
I certainly see Ryun and Decker in a class of their own as teen prodigies. Jakob was possibly even more spectacular at a younger age but while not being a world record holder in the senior ranks, as they were - and he may never be - an Olympic gold puts him up as another exceptional young talent.
