How values on the left and right have change in 40 years and not for the better.

yes I am old wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

1) Nah...50 years ago, people were buying guns to "fight" the government (having them for the purpose of having to do that if they felt they needed to...which is silly, because the government can easily overwhelm any citizen). The NRA drives the mindset of gun owners in this country. That it is more prevalent now doesn't mean it wasn't a huge issue 50 years ago, and it is inaccurate to say that 50 years ago people were buying guns for hunting not to fight the government.

2) No, we did not value equality in any way more than we do today. Just not true.

3) Ok, just so you know what you did there...you were taking the view of a white person and projecting that onto ALL people. THAT was wrong.

I have to call you out on this. I know you have good intellect but sometimes your stubborness can trump your intellect.

Lets start with your #2 point. This is what I actually posted, "We valued equality over equity." Is this true or not true? Of course its true we didn't really know what equity was back then. So yes we valued equality much much more equity. And, I didn't say we valued equality more then than now. Some today are really big on equity even if it means preferential selection for some groups. (This has worked against Asian Americans going to the Ivies)

As far as point 1, that is based more on my anecdotal experiential information. I knew many gun owners, I knew of no one who bought guns back then to fight off the government. I didn't even hear of the concept. But now it is quite common. Young fella, you are wrong on that one too. I was there.

As far as your point three, I will give you that one. But I will say disrespect for the police may have gone too far but that is subjective and I do agree with you that there are major problems to address.

1 out of three isn't that bad but you can do better.

Flagpole wrote:

yes I am old wrote:

I have to call you out on this. I know you have good intellect but sometimes your stubborness can trump your intellect.

Lets start with your #2 point. This is what I actually posted, "We valued equality over equity." Is this true or not true? Of course its true we didn't really know what equity was back then. So yes we valued equality much much more equity. And, I didn't say we valued equality more then than now. Some today are really big on equity even if it means preferential selection for some groups. (This has worked against Asian Americans going to the Ivies)

As far as point 1, that is based more on my anecdotal experiential information. I knew many gun owners, I knew of no one who bought guns back then to fight off the government. I didn't even hear of the concept. But now it is quite common. Young fella, you are wrong on that one too. I was there.

As far as your point three, I will give you that one. But I will say disrespect for the police may have gone too far but that is subjective and I do agree with you that there are major problems to address.

1 out of three isn't that bad but you can do better.

Nah...I got three out of three. AND, you have introduced something new that you are wrong about...disrespect for the police has not gone too far. THEY (the police) have misbehaved, and THEY (the police) have some learnin' and changin' to do before respect is regained.

super simple summary (SSS) wrote:

joedlrt wrote:

Bill Maher gets it right (or left):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFeDFva6tcg

And I agree that the crazies on BOTH sides are ruining things more than those in the middle.

Tell me the specific public policy positions on the right held by people that you call "crazies". Like I said, the right is more or less unchanged.

The left is WAY WAY further left. S#it like defunding the police is total insanity, stuff that has never ever been a consideration in public discourse on the left or right.

What is crazy about the right? lower taxes, smaller federal government, less federal government spending.....none of that is "crazy", just like none of the traditional "liberal" views are "crazy". You can agree or disagree in saying that lower taxes / smaller scope of the federal government is better or worse, but it's not "crazy".

Many if not most of the woke positions and people who promote them are crazy. Jimmy Carter wasn't saying any of those things. Neither was Bill Clinton back in the day. Bill Clinton's public policy was not crazy. AOC is crazy. Trump is rude and obnoxious, sure, but if you write his public policy positions on paper and hide the author, nobody would say they are crazy and it's pretty much what people on the right have always said.

Normal guy who pays attention wrote:

yes I am old wrote:

40 years ago:

We valued equality over equity. Our goal was to give everyone an equal chance not to rig the system so all groups end up the same. We knew backgrounds were all different and that's just life.

We had real patriotism not fake patriotism. I see adults who call themselves "patriots" flying adulterated flags and sympathizing with those who attacked our capital to stop our election.

We believed in science and education. (We would have been shocked if we knew that 50 years after our first lunar landing we would be trying to land someone on the moon again....huh?) We respected scientists.

We believed in honesty. Our politicians at least pretended to be honest and didn't flaunt dishonestly in our faces. There would be no George Santos still in office.

Boys didn't play in girls sports.

Guns were bought for hunting, not to fight the government.

We respected the police.

We believed the United States was leader for democracy in the world. We knew our country wasn't perfect but we still had an important role in the world.

I agree about Santos, but would Biden and Warren still be in office since we're against lying about our education and heritage?

Normal guy who pays attention wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Gonna refute some of that. (If I didn't comment on a point of yours, that means I agreed with it)

1) We valued equality LESS 50 years ago than we do today. Yes, the Trump era brought out a bunch of white racist nationalists who have been vocal and briefly had a megaphone, but the pushback to that has been substantial (from NASCAR banning the Confederate Battle Flag to sports teams changing their names to Confederate monuments and statues being torn down, etc.). Overall, marginalized people are WAY better off today with a greater percentage of people caring about that and real progress toward making things better. We actually have Trump to thank for that...he was SOOOO bad and SOOOO racist and had so many like followers that he opened the eyes of many people to how bad things still were, and we have taken great strides in stopping that kind of nonsense.

Remember when Trump said all these racist things?

“unlike the African American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things.”

“That’s like saying you . . . before you got in this program, you’re take [sic] a test whether you’re taking cocaine or not. What do you think? Huh? Are you a junkie?”

In 2010, he warmly Sen. Robert Byrd, a former in the Ku Klux Klan, saying he was “one of my mentors” and that “the Senate is a lesser place for his going.”

Link:obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/realitych...

Link:slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/06/ro...

In 2007, as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.”

Link:www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden....

In 2006, , “You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.”

Link:www.cbsnews.com/news/bidens-comments-r...

Way back in 1977, that forced busing to desegregate schools would cause his children to “grow up in a racial jungle.”

Link:www.yahoo.com/entertainment/joe-biden-...

"They're saying, 'Jeez, the reason I was able to stay sequestered in my home is because some Black woman was able to stack the grocery shelf."

“poor kids are just as bright and talented as white kids.”

Hahaha oh wait; my bad. These weren't Trump after all. Who could these non racist quotes possibly be attributed to?

joedlrt wrote:

super simple summary (SSS) wrote:

Tell me the specific public policy positions on the right held by people that you call "crazies". Like I said, the right is more or less unchanged.

The left is WAY WAY further left. S#it like defunding the police is total insanity, stuff that has never ever been a consideration in public discourse on the left or right.

What is crazy about the right? lower taxes, smaller federal government, less federal government spending.....none of that is "crazy", just like none of the traditional "liberal" views are "crazy". You can agree or disagree in saying that lower taxes / smaller scope of the federal government is better or worse, but it's not "crazy".

Many if not most of the woke positions and people who promote them are crazy. Jimmy Carter wasn't saying any of those things. Neither was Bill Clinton back in the day. Bill Clinton's public policy was not crazy. AOC is crazy. Trump is rude and obnoxious, sure, but if you write his public policy positions on paper and hide the author, nobody would say they are crazy and it's pretty much what people on the right have always said.

Basically anything Boebert or Gaetz utter. I'm a registered Republican with Libertarian leanings, but those two are horrible. I'm just waiting for people on the left to say the same about AOC and the Squad.