Herriman’s #3 guy at nxn could not break 19:30 in the 5k last year

Talent is everywhere, just need someone to bring it out

It looks like he was 4:44/10:20 for track, so roughly 17:30 shape by then. Nice solid progression.

4:44 and 10:20 early in the outdoor season AT ALTITUDE then got hurt. Might have been able to break 10 in the 3200 if not for the injury. Sub 10 as a sophomore at altitude actually indicates a lot of talent.

Sorry to you Soles fanboys, but it is not insane to run 15:58 as a junior at sea level based on his sophomore times when he was clearly new to the sport (and had outdoors shortened due to injury). It's a big difference between 15 years old and 16 years old.

I don't know what you are looking at, but he wasn't injured for his last race of the season. He won a race at his JV Region meet in track. He wasn't varsity based on his athletic.net and which meet he finished at. This kid ran out of his mind for Herriman at nationals, which is why they did so well. Take a look at the PB's of the athletes he finished around. They weren't running 4:44/10:20 last spring. Anyone who thinks this is anything short of miraculous is a moran. Congrats to Jack on the improvements he made.

Does Soles get any credit?

he ran a mid 18:30 at eastbay west last december

ca.milesplit.com

Eastbay West Regional 2021 - Sophomore (Raw)

MileSplits official Sophomore raw results for the 2021 Eastbay West Regional, hosted by Finished Results in Walnut CA.

Open link

Also worth noting that Herriman’s 6 and 7th guys were running in the 18s last year for a 5K

They also return a guy who ran a 16:07 at NXR this year but didn’t get to be in the championship squad

I agree with the 'be careful' sentiment. There's no secret to programs like FM and Great Oak-now Herriman. They create a cult like mentality, and train their kids like they are pros. Those experiences can be valuable, but the cost might be high.

I've debated whether or not I would have wanted to be a part of one of those programs just to see what my potential could have been. Honestly, I know for sure I would have burned out and probably would not run another step again after high school.

Would CBA / Southlake Carroll belong in this list too?

And the Woodlands? Weren’t the Hunters doing that to the Loudoun Valley kids?

I think the real question is what is better, the 3 kids that would have gotten a scholarship before Soles joined the program, or the 12+ that will run in college now? I would argue the latter.

His last race was April 2nd and the state championships were in late May, so for some reason his season ended more than 1.5 months before everyone else. His times would have placed him among the top half of the region 3 championships - it clearly is a meet that his times would have qualified him for.

Everyone runs a lot faster sophomore year than junior year. They also train at altitude which is a large advantage. Soles is not some genius. They got their tails kicked at Utah State Championships.

They are probably 6 inches taller this year and also probably doubled their mileage. Hundreds of kids in every state have similar if not bigger improvements than the Herriman athletes did.

Everyone runs a lot faster sophomore year than junior year? That’s new! Since when? So everyone gets slower from 10th to 11th grade?

Besides the obvious advantages of training at altitude, Coach Soles brings training with attitude to his team. If you listen to his interview after NXN, you will hear how he convinced his boys that they were a team that could finish well in the race. He also shares in the interview that it was his fault they blew up at their state championships. That admission to his high school boys is powerful. Their coach did not yell at, or blame them for running poorly at their state meet. Is it any wonder Herriman rose to the occasion in their next race at NXN. Whether you agree with his training regime or not, he deserves credit for how he mentally prepared his team.

Can you elaborate on this more? Are you talking about a mental cost or a physical one? I don't see why training kids to run 14-15 minute 5Ks is going to be worse for them than training them to run 16-17 minute 5Ks.

Absolutely not. Some people are more focused on hating Doug Soles rather than what he has accomplished as both a program or what he can do as a coach. And in their minds that's the right thing to do.

Doug Soles mentioned in an interview about a freshman class they have coming in next year. Younger brothers of the people on the team