Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

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1 year ago 12/01/2022 6:33am EST

re: Bad Wigins

Bad Wigins wrote:
Well, here we are, almost winter and Ukraine can't get its power back on. No amount of meat for the grinder can stop them from losing Bakhmut. About to collapse on several fronts and US military hinting that they can't win and better "negotiate" i.e. surrender.
And the Nazi posters on this thread will get soooo angry, soooo righteous about denying these facts. They'll insist another 100k Ukrainians get killed to validate their feelings. It's all entertainment for them. Very shameful.

It’s taken Russia like 3 months and thousands of troops to almost capture Bakmut, a strategically insignificant settlement.

ISW assessment: Russian efforts around Bakhmut indicate that Russian forces have fundamentally failed to learn from previous high-casualty campaigns concentrated on objectives of limited operational or strategic significance.

In the meantime, Russia has lost Kherson, the Kerch bridge was damaged, the highway connecting Svatove and Kreminna is being attacked, and you’re still a clueless idiot.

How many Russians do you think Putin should kill before realizing he’s not going to win?

1 year ago 12/01/2022 7:27am EST

re: GoodGollyMissLolly

It is interesting to me how easily the right wing in the US became Pro Russia during Trump's Presidency. All of our right wingers are full on cheerleaders for Russia's invasion of their neighbors and their genocidal goals for Ukraine. It all happened so quickly during the 4 years of Trump's presidency. Is it Fox news and Tucker? Is it social media bots? Is it simply the fact that Trump was a useful idiot to Russia (and other authoritarian dictators) and they love Trump and therefore love Russia? Did they buy into the Rudy Giuliani Russian propaganda against Ukraine? It is public knowledge that Russian money finds it's way into GOP donor money so that explains politicians positions, but that does not explain the rank and file right wingers on this web site.

I suspect it will never be fully understood how quickly and easily an entire political party mindset can be changed so easily.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 8:13am EST

re: carmine9

carmine9 wrote:
GoodGollyMissLolly wrote:
I would have guessed that a large % of Americans who have been fed lies upon lies from Jimmy Dore and Clayton Morris would have an average IQ of about 16, be unable to read simple tables on Wikipedia, and be wholly incapable of understanding global affairs. You are evidence that my hypothesis is correct.
Name a few of those lies.

Two months of Clayton Morris's twitter feed:

June 24th:

"The TRUTH is coming out of these Russian sanctions, and it's a disaster" -- LIE

Sanctions are working and hitting Russian tech sector HARD. Russia is almost completely unable to replace the tanks, aircraft, and missiles that they are expending in Ukraine.

June 27th:

"They can't hide the TRUTH on natural immunity anymore." -- LIE

Natural immunity works so well that many people have gotten COVID multiple times.

July 13th:

"It's all COLLAPSING in Ukraine and they want you to pay for it" -- LIE

Well, it's true that it's not going so well for Russia. 100,000 dead Russians CAN be wrong!

July 18th:

"What Russia just did is a DEATH blow to Europe" -- LIE

Europe, last I checked, is still alive.

July 19th:

"This will lead to WW3 according to Russia" -- LIE

It didn't.

July 20th:

"BREAKING! Something BIG is coming in Russia" -- LIE

Nothing BIG came to Russia.

July 21st:

"Ukraine just did the UNTHINKABLE against Russia" -- LIE

If it was UNTHINKABLE, Ukraine wouldn't have thought to do it.

July 25th:

"Zero mention of this in the western media. What is the U.S. going to do about it? #Dedollarization" "Putin and China just did the unthinkable and the West is in big trouble" "Russia joined forces with China to create a new reserve currency. This new currency will be based on rare earth minerals like gold, silver, uranium and more." -- LIE, LIE, and LIE

I tried to buy some ClayonPutinXiCoin, but couldn't. Maybe it's because Clayton Morris is a f*cking liar.

August 1st:

"This War Game with China is about to start WW3" -- LIE

It didn't.

August 4th:

"Putin and China just changed EVERYTHING with this move" -- LIE

No, they didn't. Nothing changed.

August 15th:

"War between U.S. and China "weeks away" as WEF globalists in panic" -- LIE

It's been weeks. There's been no war better the U.S. and China. Just between Clayton Morris and the truth.

August 24th:

"We are live right now looking at the 6th month mark in the war in Ukraine as Russia launches a massive offensive" -- LIE

A massive offensive that saw Russia routed in Kharkiv and retreat from Kherson while losing ten thousand square kilometers of territory that they had controlled since March.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 8:31am EST

re: JimmyDoreHasNegativeIQ

JimmyDoreHasNegativeIQ wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
Name a few of those lies.
Two months of Clayton Morris's twitter feed:
June 24th:
"The TRUTH is coming out of these Russian sanctions, and it's a disaster" -- LIE
Sanctions are working and hitting Russian tech sector HARD. Russia is almost completely unable to replace the tanks, aircraft, and missiles that they are expending in Ukraine.
June 27th:
"They can't hide the TRUTH on natural immunity anymore." -- LIE
Natural immunity works so well that many people have gotten COVID multiple times.
July 13th:
"It's all COLLAPSING in Ukraine and they want you to pay for it" -- LIE
Well, it's true that it's not going so well for Russia. 100,000 dead Russians CAN be wrong!
July 18th:
"What Russia just did is a DEATH blow to Europe" -- LIE
Europe, last I checked, is still alive.
July 19th:
"This will lead to WW3 according to Russia" -- LIE
It didn't.
July 20th:
"BREAKING! Something BIG is coming in Russia" -- LIE
Nothing BIG came to Russia.
July 21st:
"Ukraine just did the UNTHINKABLE against Russia" -- LIE
If it was UNTHINKABLE, Ukraine wouldn't have thought to do it.
July 25th:
"Zero mention of this in the western media. What is the U.S. going to do about it? #Dedollarization" "Putin and China just did the unthinkable and the West is in big trouble" "Russia joined forces with China to create a new reserve currency. This new currency will be based on rare earth minerals like gold, silver, uranium and more." -- LIE, LIE, and LIE
I tried to buy some ClayonPutinXiCoin, but couldn't. Maybe it's because Clayton Morris is a f*cking liar.
August 1st:
"This War Game with China is about to start WW3" -- LIE
It didn't.
August 4th:
"Putin and China just changed EVERYTHING with this move" -- LIE
No, they didn't. Nothing changed.
August 15th:
"War between U.S. and China "weeks away" as WEF globalists in panic" -- LIE
It's been weeks. There's been no war better the U.S. and China. Just between Clayton Morris and the truth.
August 24th:
"We are live right now looking at the 6th month mark in the war in Ukraine as Russia launches a massive offensive" -- LIE
A massive offensive that saw Russia routed in Kharkiv and retreat from Kherson while losing ten thousand square kilometers of territory that they had controlled since March.

Lies from the video I posted.

I don't twitter so I have no idea what you are on about

1 year ago 12/01/2022 8:59am EST

re: carmine9

carmine9 wrote:
JimmyDoreHasNegativeIQ wrote:
Two months of Clayton Morris's twitter feed:
June 24th:
"The TRUTH is coming out of these Russian sanctions, and it's a disaster" -- LIE
Sanctions are working and hitting Russian tech sector HARD. Russia is almost completely unable to replace the tanks, aircraft, and missiles that they are expending in Ukraine.
June 27th:
"They can't hide the TRUTH on natural immunity anymore." -- LIE
Natural immunity works so well that many people have gotten COVID multiple times.
July 13th:
"It's all COLLAPSING in Ukraine and they want you to pay for it" -- LIE
Well, it's true that it's not going so well for Russia. 100,000 dead Russians CAN be wrong!
July 18th:
"What Russia just did is a DEATH blow to Europe" -- LIE
Europe, last I checked, is still alive.
July 19th:
"This will lead to WW3 according to Russia" -- LIE
It didn't.
July 20th:
"BREAKING! Something BIG is coming in Russia" -- LIE
Nothing BIG came to Russia.
July 21st:
"Ukraine just did the UNTHINKABLE against Russia" -- LIE
If it was UNTHINKABLE, Ukraine wouldn't have thought to do it.
July 25th:
"Zero mention of this in the western media. What is the U.S. going to do about it? #Dedollarization" "Putin and China just did the unthinkable and the West is in big trouble" "Russia joined forces with China to create a new reserve currency. This new currency will be based on rare earth minerals like gold, silver, uranium and more." -- LIE, LIE, and LIE
I tried to buy some ClayonPutinXiCoin, but couldn't. Maybe it's because Clayton Morris is a f*cking liar.
August 1st:
"This War Game with China is about to start WW3" -- LIE
It didn't.
August 4th:
"Putin and China just changed EVERYTHING with this move" -- LIE
No, they didn't. Nothing changed.
August 15th:
"War between U.S. and China "weeks away" as WEF globalists in panic" -- LIE
It's been weeks. There's been no war better the U.S. and China. Just between Clayton Morris and the truth.
August 24th:
"We are live right now looking at the 6th month mark in the war in Ukraine as Russia launches a massive offensive" -- LIE
A massive offensive that saw Russia routed in Kharkiv and retreat from Kherson while losing ten thousand square kilometers of territory that they had controlled since March.
Lies from the video I posted.
I don't twitter so I have no idea what you are on about

And I don't watch lying sh*tfaces like Jimmy Dore and Clayton Morris on YouTube.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 9:30am EST

re: Precious Roy

Precious Roy wrote:
It was wrong when NATO bombed civilian infrastructure in Serbia. It was wrong when the US bombed civilian infrastructure in Iraq. And it is wrong for Russia to bomb civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. Next question.

Do you think it was a bad strategy to assume that Russia was going to do the right thing when the US has done the wrong thing time after time?

Zelenski was apparently listening to Joe 'the ruble is rubble' Biden and thought Russia had run out of washing machines to make missiles out of.

Now Zelenski is promoting his trillion dollar wish list for rebuilding. Maybe someone should let him know the US spent 2 trillion dollars in Afganistan and still left it a hell hole.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 10:01am EST

re: Turtleb

Turtleb wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
It was wrong when NATO bombed civilian infrastructure in Serbia. It was wrong when the US bombed civilian infrastructure in Iraq. And it is wrong for Russia to bomb civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. Next question.
Do you think it was a bad strategy to assume that Russia was going to do the right thing when the US has done the wrong thing time after time?

There is the matter of degree. To the specific example of Serbia, while there is a case for NATO war crimes, there is also a very plausible case for net civilian lives being spared by the NATO actions.

Now Zelenski is promoting his trillion dollar wish list for rebuilding. Maybe someone should let him know the US spent 2 trillion dollars in Afganistan and still left it a hell hole.

A critical difference is that Ukraine is getting the crap beat out of them because they wanted to play nice with the western world and Afghanistan for the opposite reason. For purely pragmatic reasons the west would like to encourage the former over the latter.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:10pm EST

re: Precious Roy

Precious Roy wrote:
It was wrong when NATO bombed civilian infrastructure in Serbia. It was wrong when the US bombed civilian infrastructure in Iraq. And it is wrong for Russia to bomb civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. Next question.

No, not next question. The way world deals with Russia, it should also deal with all the other uncomfortable things the West has done in the past. Just like holocaust was recognized and restituted, it is also time to do the same thing for Serbia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and many other destroyed countries.

Otherwise this attitude and sanctions towards Russia are just a hypocritic nonsense. Same rules for every country.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:14pm EST

re: Monkeys Skyping

Monkeys Skyping wrote:
There is the matter of degree. To the specific example of Serbia, while there is a case for NATO war crimes, there is also a very plausible case for net civilian lives being spared by the NATO actions.

Oh yeah, it's all about saving lives. Just like in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Whenever the West bombs some country, it's about "democracy" and "saving lives". But when some non-West country does it, it's evil terrorism.

Murder is murder. Let's not pretent we are any better than the rest.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:17pm EST

re: Lollys Master

Lollys Master wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
It was wrong when NATO bombed civilian infrastructure in Serbia. It was wrong when the US bombed civilian infrastructure in Iraq. And it is wrong for Russia to bomb civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. Next question.
No, not next question. The way world deals with Russia, it should also deal with all the other uncomfortable things the West has done in the past. Just like holocaust was recognized and restituted, it is also time to do the same thing for Serbia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and many other destroyed countries.
Otherwise this attitude and sanctions towards Russia are just a hypocritic nonsense. Same rules for every country.

dude. the battle is against cruelty and evil. The battle is not against hypocrisy. Well adjusted adults and nations are perfectly willing to live with hypocrisy if it increases the amount of good in the world and decreases the amount of evil.

Focus, man. Focus.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:21pm EST

re: GoodGollyMissLolly

GoodGollyMissLolly wrote:
So, Putin condemned the NATO bombing campaign in Yugoslavia / Serbia and then used it as a pretext for his invasion of Ukraine. I think we found the Czar of double standards and hypocrisy and his name is Putin.
p.s. Did you ever figure out how many Ukrainian civilians pro-separatist forces killed in Donbas over the last 8 years? How many were killed by Russian weapons? Don’t forget the 298 killed on MH17.

Pro-separatist forces are mostly Ukrainian citizens, buddy, which makes it a civil war. The West gladly ignores this fact. I'm also pretty sure, that more civilians were killed by American weapons in Ukraine than on MH17.

While I don't endorse Putins actions in Ukraine, I don't see him doing anything, the West hasn't done in the past scot-free.

I wish Western leaders would take of their pretend-halo and just say loud and clear: "we don't like what Russia is doing, because they're not us. Only we are allowed to do such things" :)

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:26pm EST

re: agip

agip wrote:
dude. the battle is against cruelty and evil. The battle is not against hypocrisy. Well adjusted adults and nations are perfectly willing to live with hypocrisy if it increases the amount of good in the world and decreases the amount of evil.
Focus, man. Focus.

Nope, you're wrong. The West has no moral ground to condemn Russia. Don't be a prostitute preaching about virginity. Also, there is not evil and no good - it's just a concept and whoever is in power decides what's what. USA bombs Iraq and kills 200.000 civilians = good, Russia attacks Ukraine and kills 100.000 soldiers = evil?

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:34pm EST

re: Lollys Master

Lollys Master wrote:
agip wrote:
dude. the battle is against cruelty and evil. The battle is not against hypocrisy. Well adjusted adults and nations are perfectly willing to live with hypocrisy if it increases the amount of good in the world and decreases the amount of evil.
Focus, man. Focus.
Nope, you're wrong. The West has no moral ground to condemn Russia. Don't be a prostitute preaching about virginity. Also, there is not evil and no good - it's just a concept and whoever is in power decides what's what. USA bombs Iraq and kills 200.000 civilians = good, Russia attacks Ukraine and kills 100.000 soldiers = evil?

actually a prostitute would have a lot of value to offer in terms of wisdom about sexuality.

as would the US after its mistakes.

you are not really getting the big issues here. The big issue is to bring more good into the world and push out evil. Focus on that for a while.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:37pm EST

re: Lollys Master

Lollys Master wrote:
GoodGollyMissLolly wrote:
So, Putin condemned the NATO bombing campaign in Yugoslavia / Serbia and then used it as a pretext for his invasion of Ukraine. I think we found the Czar of double standards and hypocrisy and his name is Putin.
p.s. Did you ever figure out how many Ukrainian civilians pro-separatist forces killed in Donbas over the last 8 years? How many were killed by Russian weapons? Don’t forget the 298 killed on MH17.
Pro-separatist forces are mostly Ukrainian citizens, buddy, which makes it a civil war. The West gladly ignores this fact. I'm also pretty sure, that more civilians were killed by American weapons in Ukraine than on MH17.
While I don't endorse Putins actions in Ukraine, I don't see him doing anything, the West hasn't done in the past scot-free.
I wish Western leaders would take of their pretend-halo and just say loud and clear: "we don't like what Russia is doing, because they're not us. Only we are allowed to do such things" :)

hey name a country that a NATO member has invaded in order to annex territory for itself. Hey, name two or three since apparently you think it's a normal happening. Four even.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 3:37pm EST

re: Mick Joggerrr

Mick Joggerrr wrote:
It is interesting to me how easily the right wing in the US became Pro Russia during Trump's Presidency. All of our right wingers are full on cheerleaders for Russia's invasion of their neighbors and their genocidal goals for Ukraine. It all happened so quickly during the 4 years of Trump's presidency. Is it Fox news and Tucker? Is it social media bots? Is it simply the fact that Trump was a useful idiot to Russia (and other authoritarian dictators) and they love Trump and therefore love Russia? Did they buy into the Rudy Giuliani Russian propaganda against Ukraine? It is public knowledge that Russian money finds it's way into GOP donor money so that explains politicians positions, but that does not explain the rank and file right wingers on this web site.
I suspect it will never be fully understood how quickly and easily an entire political party mindset can be changed so easily.

Exactly. From a purely "America First" standpoint, the more aid we give to Ukraine, the better.

Who are our biggest rivals and enemies? Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Helping Ukraine kills 3 birds with one stone. Degrade Russia's military, deplete Iran's drones, and deplete North Korea's artillery that they're sending to Russia.

And as a bonus, the less wrecked Ukraine is, the fewer Ukrainian refugees we have to deal with.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 4:08pm EST

re: JimmyDoreHasNegativeIQ

JimmyDoreHasNegativeIQ wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
Lies from the video I posted.
I don't twitter so I have no idea what you are on about
And I don't watch lying sh*tfaces like Jimmy Dore and Clayton Morris on YouTube.

Would not want to be exposed to anything that counters the state narrative.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 4:09pm EST

re: Logic.

Logic. wrote:
Mick Joggerrr wrote:
It is interesting to me how easily the right wing in the US became Pro Russia during Trump's Presidency. All of our right wingers are full on cheerleaders for Russia's invasion of their neighbors and their genocidal goals for Ukraine. It all happened so quickly during the 4 years of Trump's presidency. Is it Fox news and Tucker? Is it social media bots? Is it simply the fact that Trump was a useful idiot to Russia (and other authoritarian dictators) and they love Trump and therefore love Russia? Did they buy into the Rudy Giuliani Russian propaganda against Ukraine? It is public knowledge that Russian money finds it's way into GOP donor money so that explains politicians positions, but that does not explain the rank and file right wingers on this web site.
I suspect it will never be fully understood how quickly and easily an entire political party mindset can be changed so easily.
Exactly. From a purely "America First" standpoint, the more aid we give to Ukraine, the better.
Who are our biggest rivals and enemies? Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Helping Ukraine kills 3 birds with one stone. Degrade Russia's military, deplete Iran's drones, and deplete North Korea's artillery that they're sending to Russia.
And as a bonus, the less wrecked Ukraine is, the fewer Ukrainian refugees we have to deal with.

Israel is far and away our biggest problem. Not even close

1 year ago 12/01/2022 4:17pm EST

re: Logic.

Logic. wrote:
Mick Joggerrr wrote:
It is interesting to me how easily the right wing in the US became Pro Russia during Trump's Presidency. All of our right wingers are full on cheerleaders for Russia's invasion of their neighbors and their genocidal goals for Ukraine. It all happened so quickly during the 4 years of Trump's presidency. Is it Fox news and Tucker? Is it social media bots? Is it simply the fact that Trump was a useful idiot to Russia (and other authoritarian dictators) and they love Trump and therefore love Russia? Did they buy into the Rudy Giuliani Russian propaganda against Ukraine? It is public knowledge that Russian money finds it's way into GOP donor money so that explains politicians positions, but that does not explain the rank and file right wingers on this web site.
I suspect it will never be fully understood how quickly and easily an entire political party mindset can be changed so easily.
Exactly. From a purely "America First" standpoint, the more aid we give to Ukraine, the better.
Who are our biggest rivals and enemies? Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Helping Ukraine kills 3 birds with one stone. Degrade Russia's military, deplete Iran's drones, and deplete North Korea's artillery that they're sending to Russia.
And as a bonus, the less wrecked Ukraine is, the fewer Ukrainian refugees we have to deal with.

Freeze and starve Ukrainians, Germans, and others.

Bankrupt the USA.

Ensure the mass murder continues.

Risk nuclear war.

So many bonuses

1 year ago 12/01/2022 4:57pm EST

re: agip

agip wrote:
Lollys Master wrote:
Nope, you're wrong. The West has no moral ground to condemn Russia. Don't be a prostitute preaching about virginity. Also, there is not evil and no good - it's just a concept and whoever is in power decides what's what. USA bombs Iraq and kills 200.000 civilians = good, Russia attacks Ukraine and kills 100.000 soldiers = evil?
actually a prostitute would have a lot of value to offer in terms of wisdom about sexuality.
as would the US after its mistakes.
you are not really getting the big issues here. The big issue is to bring more good into the world and push out evil. Focus on that for a while.

You're never going to convince a nihilist that any of these details matter. Everything Russia does is fine because the west is bad. Anything is justifiable because the US has done bad things in the past.

1 year ago 12/01/2022 5:00pm EST

re: Lollys Master

Lollys Master wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
It was wrong when NATO bombed civilian infrastructure in Serbia. It was wrong when the US bombed civilian infrastructure in Iraq. And it is wrong for Russia to bomb civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. Next question.
No, not next question. The way world deals with Russia, it should also deal with all the other uncomfortable things the West has done in the past. Just like holocaust was recognized and restituted, it is also time to do the same thing for Serbia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and many other destroyed countries.
Otherwise this attitude and sanctions towards Russia are just a hypocritic nonsense. Same rules for every country.

I believe it is antisemitic to compare any other world event to The Holocaust

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