Outside Mag: Should elite marathons have their elite men start separate from the masses? Isn't it xenophobic?

Nothing wrong with corralling people by qualifying time; but they all start at the same time and everyone is in the race together. Worrying about an elite runner having to step around someone is treating select runners with kid gloves like they are a bunch of wusses who can't handle anything. Maybe this is why nobody seems to care about elite running. Too many wusses who need separate start lines and times.

These wusses hire agents to advocate for them so yeah, they're like all the wusses in other pro sports that way.

Precious Roy wrote:

I do see the point about keeping non-invited runners out of the money. But the pros are paid to line up an go for the win and not do a time trial and pick off elites who have cracked trying to stay with the leaders.

Why shouldn't the fastest runners get the prize money regardless of whether they were invited? At the 2008 San Francisco women's marathon, a woman in the mass start ran a faster time than a woman who was in the elite wave.

Just have a mass start regardless of age, sex, nationality etc.

Just give out the prize money according to the order the competitors cross the finish line (provided they run the full course (unlike Kip Litton) regardless of age, sex, nationality etc.

The sport needs to get back to basics.

showing up1 wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

I do see the point about keeping non-invited runners out of the money. But the pros are paid to line up an go for the win and not do a time trial and pick off elites who have cracked trying to stay with the leaders.

Why shouldn't the fastest runners get the prize money regardless of whether they were invited? At the 2008 San Francisco women's marathon, a woman in the mass start ran a faster time than a woman who was in the elite wave.

That's not how real professional sports work. It's only expected in our backwards, marginal, participatory sport. The next step should be pro tour/circuit membership, which you shouldn't need an agent to obtain and should be based on hitting performance criteria over the past 1-2 calendar years. We're almost up to the basic levels of the PGA and WTA, but we're still dragging our feet while we aren't kicking and screaming.

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

Nothing wrong with corralling people by qualifying time; but they all start at the same time and everyone is in the race together. Worrying about an elite runner having to step around someone is treating select runners with kid gloves like they are a bunch of wusses who can't handle anything. Maybe this is why nobody seems to care about elite running. Too many wusses who need separate start lines and times.

A race in my hometown does this. Pros/Elites have their own corral, followed by time-qualifiers, then the masses, with about a minute between each start. Everyone can compete.

Zev wrote:

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

Nothing wrong with corralling people by qualifying time; but they all start at the same time and everyone is in the race together. Worrying about an elite runner having to step around someone is treating select runners with kid gloves like they are a bunch of wusses who can't handle anything. Maybe this is why nobody seems to care about elite running. Too many wusses who need separate start lines and times.

A race in my hometown does this. Pros/Elites have their own corral, followed by time-qualifiers, then the masses, with about a minute between each start. Everyone can compete.

correction: the time qualifiers and the masses start together. it's been two years since the last was last held as intended. virtual last year, rolling start this year (effectively turning it into a time trial).

Just start the pros on a separate lane from the masses and have a barrier between the lanes for the first mile?

Pros start separate and don't have to worry about getting tripped.

Amateurs start at the same time so have equal chance to 'bust one out'

Idiots can sprint as fast as they want, but nobody that dumb is going to be running sub-5 for a mile (hopefully).

Cameras can be angled to avoid normal runners also, so less of a reason to 'win TV time'

Race directors like the separate elite men start, as it allows them to easily locate, introduce and feature the top pro men who they have paid good money to just to appear at their race. The separate elite mens start helps event directors better protect their appearance fee investments, making it easier to place these athletes at the front of the group for a safe start. The separate elite mens start helps improve the odds that the investment of an appearance fee will yield a return when those athletes finish in the money.

Agents like this as it supports their existence. They have the connections and ability to more easily get athletes into separate elite starting areas that runners without agents may not have.

TV announcers like this, as they have a limited number of known athletes to talk about during the race. Its always embarrassing when they cannot identify or provide information about some unknown runner from the masses who leads (or beats) the elites.

Journalists like this as they can write pre race preview/prediction stories based on a limited amount of entrants. And bigger races provide media kits containing the bios of elite men starting separately.

Announcers and spectators like this as many big races provide elite men with bibs with their name on it rather than a number. This makes it easier to identify these runners, and helps humanize these athletes for spectators.

All that said, the sport loses one of its unique aspects when the average runner is essentially prohibited from testing themselves against the best in the sport in the same event. I used to love trying to hang with the big name elite men for the first two miles (or as long as possible) in a 10k, Or, trying to beat the best women in the world.

i hate the idea of starting the elites separately.

"elites" is not a static term. in lots of races it covers everyone from 2:05 to 2:25 or even 2:30, 2:40. a subelite person on the fringe of that should get a chance to fairly race all the other subelites.

also it really is thrilling for thousands of people to feel like they're actually racing against the world's best. it's what running is at its best: democratized. like the Indiana HS basketball playoffs. everyone gets in, everyone has a chance. it's the prinicipal of it. this sport is about more than sponsorships and shoes and the elite of the elite.

finally, it's a far, far better visual to see the elites taking off with a massive crowd behind them. it's like you can actually see that these are the best runners on the planet, because it feels like the whole planet is chasing them.

these races with wave starts of 20 or 100 people are empty and depressing and anticlimatic as hell.

and this has nothing to do with race or xenophobia. what on earth is OP talking about