Not politically correct answer:
Not enough native, black distance runners in America (most are in sprints). Instead, the white guys are the stars as high school and collegiate athletes, then soon find out that they hit a genetic limit at the pro level. The only time America wins in distance is when an ex-African moves to the USA and runs for them.
... a fantastic but cheap and lesser known spot in the mountain west at 7,000 feet with dirt roads and trails to set up the camp. Just make it within range of a good airport.
Yeah, right.
Huhh?? wrote:
Not politically correct answer:
Not enough native, black distance runners in America (most are in sprints). Instead, the white guys are the stars as high school and collegiate athletes, then soon find out that they hit a genetic limit at the pro level. The only time America wins in distance is when an ex-African moves to the USA and runs for them.
American Black's ancestry is from the west coast of Africa and they do not have the distance running ability of the Ethiopians and Kenyans. There is no reason to think black Americans would have more talent for running than white ones.
sinking wrote:
The talent pool isn't 332 million though, is it? 40% of Americans are obese.
And 50 million are illegal aliens.
lke_4:25 wrote:
Man I got some bad news for you because there’s a pretty clear answer but nobody on this website likes it…
Go for it.
BekeleKip wrote:
We should be winning gold in every single middle and long distance events. The probabilities that this can happen with a population of 332 million are too high for this not to happen.
332 million Americans divided by 7.9 billion people worldwide = 4.2%
The real answer is that we're so historically overrepresented on the medal stand in almost every sport, people don't appreciate what the true expected count should be.
Pablo Nurmi wrote:
A dangerous post here on the lily white LRC board but I think Blacks and Hispanics should be steered towards distance running instead of maligning them all the time. This country isn't tapping into it's complete potential. Remember McFarland? And it's a potential win-win situation if it keeps young kids involved and not in gangs. But no one will try it...it's too liberal.
I agree, but there is a strong precedent in CA for Hispanic kids running distance, especially in the San Joaquin and Inland Empire. If you go to the MT Sac XC meet half of the teams are comprised of Hispanic kids and you also even see teams of mostly South Asian or even East Asian runners. A lot of kids from these areas have been quite successful. Think Brenda Martinez, German Fernandez, Luis Grijalva, Edwardo Herrera and others.
simple solution:
convince more kenyans or ethiopians to run for the U.S. **or **
drop more Americans in these african countries at birth.
been working pretty well for U.S. men's soccer recently...
flyingfrog wrote:
If you want to compete with doped up athletes the only answer is to dope. And when one of ours gets caught everyone raises hell. Yes doping is the only way to beat dopers. You don't think the African runners dominating the distances are doped to the gills? And all sprinters?
From 2004 to August 2018, 138 Kenyan athletes tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, according to a WADA report published in September 2018.
"Notable names on the list of Kenyan runners currently banned include the 2016 Olympic women's marathon champion Jemima Sumgong and former world marathon record holder Wilson Kipsang. The 2011, 2013 and 2015 world 1500 metres gold medallist Asbel Kiprop is also banned, as is Elijah Manangoi, who succeeded him in 2017"
Maybe it's time to just shut down track and field or allow everyone to dope.
138 runners in Kenya, out of the vast number who meet world standards every year, is a really, really small number.
It'll make sense, of course, to supply your best PEDs to athletes who are already good, and where the drugs could add valuable advantage. How many indian distance runners have been suspended for doping? Hardly any. It won't make much sense. Kenyans do dope, but even without it they're still a force. Like kids do relays as a game during free time. Boys do high jumps when no soccer ball or pitch is available.
It'll be incorrect to attribute the dominance purely to doping.
Good point. Our best miler in HS was a quarter miler who took it up as a lark after getting 4th and fifth's in the quarter mile. Finished second in Texas State on very little distance training.
sdfdsfsdfsdf wrote:
I think your post has merit, but in the past 30 years Germany has a gold at 5000m, Spain has a gold at 1500m, and GB has had Kelly Holmes' 800m/1500m double, and Farah's utter dominance at 5000m and 10000m. As far as golds, we have only Centro.
Germany also won gold over 800 m in 2000. And the Netherlands just won gold in the 5000.
Still, those are rare occasions.
zxcvczxv wrote:
They could locate it in Flagstaff or search out a fantastic but cheap and lesser known spot in the mountain west at 7,000 feet with dirt roads and trails to set up the camp. Just make it within range of a good airport. Then build out the housing and build a track if you don't have one. That's essentially what they were trying in Tahoe where they built a track at the altitude of Mexico City, and way up at 10,000 feet in Colorado shortly before the Mexico City Olympics.
The last time I passed through Flagstaff there was a blizzard in progress. They got 18 inches of snow, and I-15 was shut down.
i’d also consider the level of athlete that goes into the “farm system” of high schools.
it’s the kids that can’t do anything else. XC and track in general (especially outside of the 100) is decidedly uncool. The nerds. The outcasts.
Track consists of our F and G level athletes. Soccer gets D and E level, and we suck at that too.
Take what we can get and don’t dwell on it. It’s been waaaaaay better the past decade than from say ‘92-2004
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Huhh?? wrote:
Not politically correct answer:
Not enough native, black distance runners in America (most are in sprints). Instead, the white guys are the stars as high school and collegiate athletes, then soon find out that they hit a genetic limit at the pro level. The only time America wins in distance is when an ex-African moves to the USA and runs for them.
American Black's ancestry is from the west coast of Africa and they do not have the distance running ability of the Ethiopians and Kenyans. There is no reason to think black Americans would have more talent for running than white ones.
So what do west Africans succeed in with regards to track and field? Sprints jumps and throws??
sdfdsfsdfsdf wrote:
Gentleman Savage wrote:
Sure, because Germany, Spain, France, and GB have just been killing it in the distances at the Olympics for the past 30 years. It's really hurt Japan, by comparison, as well.
I think your post has merit, but in the past 30 years Germany has a gold at 5000m, Spain has a gold at 1500m, and GB has had Kelly Holmes' 800m/1500m double, and Farah's utter dominance at 5000m and 10000m. As far as golds, we have only Centro.
Right, reinforcing the idea that those are all exceptions to the rule. And Farah didn't do dick until he got into a development program in the US, it had little to do with a "club in lieu of college" concept. What would be the total distance medal count for the US vs Germany, Spain, GB, and France in that 30 year timeframe?
BekeleKip wrote:
I am biased as US runner but we should have world records from the 800m to the 10000m. We should be winning gold in every single middle and long distance events. The probabilities that this can happen with a population of 332 million are too high for this not to happen. We need to strive for excellence and not just "happy to be here" BS.
We have the largest farm system in the world with highschool athletes, USATF, etc... yet we still suck at championship meets. We have the best facilities. The biggest budgets. Best social media presence to attract more athletes. The best olympic kits (as shown by multiple US athletes on Youtube). Much larger pool to pluck talent. Best everything but results in races that matter.
We just don't have the depth in the few events we have a shot.
Just hire the big artillery! US elite running needs new influences. Time for coach JS to jump in!
Swedish smarts and Viking power!
twiddle wrote:
i’d also consider the level of athlete that goes into the “farm system” of high schools.
it’s the kids that can’t do anything else. XC and track in general (especially outside of the 100) is decidedly uncool. The nerds. The outcasts.
Track consists of our F and G level athletes. Soccer gets D and E level, and we suck at that too.
Take what we can get and don’t dwell on it. It’s been waaaaaay better the past decade than from say ‘92-2004
That's absolute crap. Were you home schooled and had no contact with HS sports?
Precious Roy wrote:
I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. Schweizer and Cranny are relatively new to international championship running. This is Cranny's first world event and Schweizer has only been to the WCs in 2019. Shalane did not medal in the 10k until her second OGs in 2008. Coburn also wasn't really competitive at world events until she had two WCs and an OG under her belt. Schweizer and Cranny have real talent and will continue to improve.
You can quibble all day about college athletics and training groups, but the fact of the matter is that the E. Africans are always going to dominate the rest of the world when it comes to distance running. It takes very little in terms of investment to develop top talent in Kenya and Ethiopia. You can get hundreds of runners turning up to train just in exchange for some running gear, a bowl of ugali at each meal and a cot to sleep on. For what it costs to sponsor Cranny or Schweizer, you can fund a training group of 30 runners in Ethiopia and Kenya.
And that also goes to the cultural aspects of distance running in the US v. E. Africa. In the US, dedicating yourself to be a distance runner is essentially a sacrifice. You are giving up running around going to bars with your friends and getting a good job out of college or going to grad school. For E. Africans, they can be a professional runner or farm potatoes or be a prison guard. Taking a shot at being a professional runner has no downside. Everyone and anyone who can run fast will show up in Iten or Addis to take a shot at it. There is nothing we can do about that dynamic.
Smart post
same ol same ol wrote:
1) go back and watch rio- 800 (bronze), 1500 (gold), 3k st (silver), 5k (silver), marathon (bronze)
2) best steeple guy out
3) best 800 guy out
4) marathon 5k and 1500 have not even been run yet
the OP conveniently ignored this post from page 1
Remember in high school when you trained pretty hard and ran a 4:25 mile? You were in great shape.
There are guys that are stringing 26 of them back to back and not looking tired when they finish. How do you think that is possible? How do you think that a person could train themselves that hard and not break down?
There are no magic workouts. There are no magic coaches. It is getting a talented person and doping them and hoping the hard work works.