C/M Runner wrote:
That sucks.
She still has Tokyo.
Exactly. Much better for this to happen in Monaco than in Tokyo. This race tells me that Emma IS going to be on the podium in a few weeks. What color of medal I do not know but she WILL tie Jennifer Simpson with the most world medals by an American female distance runner with four and will also tie Milcah Chemos Cheywa of Kenya as the only steeplechasers with four Olympic/WC medals. Clearly one of the most dominant steeplechasers ever.
Karmic water jump? wrote:
Emma has to be the biggest sore loser in the sport. Never apologized and now NBC just hides any comments trying to hold her responsible lol. Hate to say that I found great joy in chepkoech passing her as she fell.
Apologized for what? What am I missing?
Kiyeng definitely miscounted. Somehow the NBC announcers missed it. She kicked during the middle of the second to last lap, took two steps leaning forward across the line as if the race were over, and then looked back to her left toward the finish line a bit later to see if other runners had stopped.
Coburn was never going to break 9 minutes. I thought she should have tried to aggressively pass entering the hurdle on the backstretch. Once that didn't happen and Kiyeng had regrouped there was only one winner. Coburn has nice even monotone style but nothing close to enough raw ability to outkick the top Kenyans or Ethiopians.
Also, where was Courtney Frerichs? She adapted exactly the wrong strategy after the 2017 success but doesn't seem to understand that. Training into a championship meet worked for her once. It's not going to work again. That was a fluke to begin with, with Chepkoech getting confused. Frerichs needed to race hard from the front time and again. Who cares if you fall apart? Eventually your body adjusts and your training adjusts. She is destined to be a second tier non factor again.
Disgusted
rojo wrote:
Karmic water jump? wrote:
Emma has to be the biggest sore loser in the sport. Never apologized and now NBC just hides any comments trying to hold her responsible lol. Hate to say that I found great joy in chepkoech passing her as she fell.
Apologized for what? What am I missing?
Emma implied in some recent post-race comments that she thinks Chepkoech is doping.
Ray Cyst wrote:
Evian spelled backward wrote:
Ray, I couldn't disagree with your race ass-essment more. EC's stated intention was to try and run sub 9. They were at 6 flat through 2k, ie perfect pace. Perfect race up until that point. At the bell lap, it looked they had slipped 1-2 second off sub 9 pace (I'll have to go back and confirm), so it makes perfect sense she tried to speed up when she saw that split. She was clearly on the edge that last 400m and it had nothing to do with bad tactics... she was just redlining at max effort. It looked like she may have gotten distracted for a split second or even made contact with the leader on that last water barrier, but regardless, she was clearly fatigued... combination resulted in not getting her foot high enough on the barrier. I personally don't think she was going to break 9, but it's reasonable to think she would have been close if she stayed upright.
I would say that up until the fall, she ran to near perfection for her best chance to go sub 9. Tough break in a tough event, but she should be able to get under 9 some time soon if she stays healthy. Not quite the soul-crushing fall that Jager had when he was a lock for sub 8.
Cheers to Emma- she went for it and is clearly fit. Olympics will be exciting.
Another non-reading idiot I see. Where did I say it had anything to do with bad tactics? You basically just repeated what I said and argued about something I didn't say. She clearly sped up because she saw Kiyeng dying, I don't consider that a bad tactic, I consider it to be impatience. She thought she had more than she did and now she knows. If you are gong to call someone an a$$, make sure that's not the only word you know how to read.
Here you go, chief.
You led off with the dismissive “that wasn't a great race.” Aside from a single mis-step by about an inch, it was in fact a nearly perfect race (based on her stated goal of sub 9) up until that point. She was dead on her goal pace through 6 minutes, evenly split, didn’t spend time in the lead, caught up to the leader and held prime inside position into the final water barrier position. Did she look like she had enough left in the tank to kick under 9? Debatable. I don’t think she would have made it, but I’m sure it would have been within 1-2 seconds. You claim she was “spent”... obviously. Redlining a steeple does that to you. But she pulled even with the leader and was certainly not moving backwards. No basis whatsoever based on any objective evidence (show me the splits) for you to insinuate she was already done with 150m to go... other than the fact she missed her plant foot by an inch.
As for your tactics comment: I don’t see how any rational person would interpret your ass-essment that she “moved too soon” and spent up all of her energy with 250m to go as anything other than a tactical critique. Impatience is certainly a tactical error... see Alan Webb’s ridiculous move with 600m to go in the WCs.
You can backpedal all you want and are welcome to continue to do so. That was a helluva race until the final barrier, and there is no evidence at all to support your theory that she was already spent and done by that point, or that it was due to “impatience.” She looked at least as good as the leader at that point. She was simply fatigued and missed by an inch... doesn’t mean she was donzo. She's ready for Tokyo.
Breakfast In Bed wrote:
Emma implied in some recent post-race comments that she thinks Chepkoech is doping.
I assume this is what you are talking about. It is not recent; it is from 2018 after Chepkoech broke the world record. I think she handled the question very tactfully. Nothing to apologize for here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9L9aGfXpRU&t=109sGesa Krause had a rough race. She also has weird form over the hurdles. Arms flail quite wildly.
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Good tweet from Emma afterwards
https://mobile.twitter.com/emmajcoburn/status/1413614210857136129
Too bad.
She has a shot at sub 9:00
Frerichs didn't like it.
Agreed. I would rather watch them give it their all. Than to watch them concede to other athletes and just run as a hobbyjogger like me.
People seem to be confused here about what happened in the race. I heard the US channel commentators didn't pick up on obvious things, on CBC (Canadian) it was very clear.
Earlier in the event was an incident where the organizers rang the bell one lap too early, causing the leader of the 3000m steeple M to sprint like it's the last lap and then jog the true last lap, getting passed by many runners instead of contesting the win.
As a result, the female 3000m steeple runners were instructed to keep track of the laps themselves and not trust the bell ringer to avoid a similar situation.
Kiyeng counted the laps herself, and miscounted them, thinking the penultimate lap was already the last one. It was obvious that she surged and used all her energy on that lap, she was also creating a significant gap. After the penultimate lap she realized she still has to do one more and slowed down considerably. Coburn was easily making up the distance. She knew exactly what happened (Kiyeng miscounting and kicking too early) and was already excited to win the race. That caused her to lose focus and trip on the water jump. This had nothing to do with lack of fitness or chasing an unrealistic time, it was just the excitement of knowing she is about to win Monaco because the runner in front of her had nothing left.
Lesson learned, the real question is who would win if neither of these events happen (Kiyeng miscounting and Coburn tripping), currently it seems to be in favor of Kiyeng.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
As a result, the female 3000m steeple runners were instructed to keep track of the laps themselves and not trust the bell ringer to avoid a similar situation.
Kiyeng counted the laps herself, and miscounted them, thinking the penultimate lap was already the last one.
Others have said the same thing but I find this hard to believe. There is a GIANT clock at the finish line. The women know if they are coming through the line in 6:40 that this cannot be the final lap or they would be running under 8:00 flat.
If you are a 10:00 high school 3200 runner and you come through the line and the call out a 7:30 split you are not going to think, "Holy crap, I'm going to drop my PR from 10:00 to 8:45 today!"
Evian spelled backward wrote:
As for your tactics comment: I don’t see how any rational person would interpret your ass-essment that she “moved too soon” and spent up all of her energy with 250m to go as anything other than a tactical critique. Impatience is certainly a tactical error... see Alan Webb’s ridiculous move with 600m to go in the WCs.
You can backpedal all you want and are welcome to continue to do so. That was a helluva race until the final barrier, and there is no evidence at all to support your theory that she was already spent and done by that point, or that it was due to “impatience.” She looked at least as good as the leader at that point. She was simply fatigued and missed by an inch... doesn’t mean she was donzo. She's ready for Tokyo.
Coburn was absolutely done with 250 to go.
She eliminated a 40 meter lead in 150 meters and thought she was going to easily pass Kiyeng on the backstretch barrier.
When Kiyeng regained her pace on that barrier, Coburn grimaces and tucks back in. The rest is history.
Coburn went for it, she just didn’t have it in her today. She would not have won without the fall. She would not have broken 9 without the fall.
Yes, Kiyeng ran ca. 68-69 for the penultimate and 78 for the last lap, although I had not realized that when I watched the race (unlike with Kigen where it was obvious, although I had switched sound off and missed the wrong bell).
http://static.sportresult.com/sports/at/data/2021/monaco/are1290040.pdf
This could have been much, much worse. Fortunately, Coburn instinctively braced her fall and avoided serious injury. Had she landed wrong, she could have broken ribs (or worse) and probably ruined her chances in Tokyo.
Yes. I agree with your assessment. But Emma should have made the pass when she caught her. She would have had clear sailing ⛵, clear view, and I'm guessing she wouldn't have gotten tripped up and fell. But save for that she ran a fantastic and yes, smart race. I just hope this fuels her fire even more for Tokyo. She is a gamer but steady as she goes. A rare combo. She seems to have steady nerves and a great disposition. I can't wait to see this race!
the macdaddy og wrote:
Evian spelled backward wrote:
As for your tactics comment: I don’t see how any rational person would interpret your ass-essment that she “moved too soon” and spent up all of her energy with 250m to go as anything other than a tactical critique. Impatience is certainly a tactical error... see Alan Webb’s ridiculous move with 600m to go in the WCs.
You can backpedal all you want and are welcome to continue to do so. That was a helluva race until the final barrier, and there is no evidence at all to support your theory that she was already spent and done by that point, or that it was due to “impatience.” She looked at least as good as the leader at that point. She was simply fatigued and missed by an inch... doesn’t mean she was donzo. She's ready for Tokyo.
Coburn was absolutely done with 250 to go.
She eliminated a 40 meter lead in 150 meters and thought she was going to easily pass Kiyeng on the backstretch barrier.
When Kiyeng regained her pace on that barrier, Coburn grimaces and tucks back in. The rest is history.
Coburn went for it, she just didn’t have it in her today. She would not have won without the fall. She would not have broken 9 without the fall.
You and Ray must be very successful in life, given your mindreading abilities. This is an interesting study in peoples' personal projections onto objective events.
Emma did not speed up to catch Kiyeng. Based on the splits (check them the final 400m), Emma just remained steady and on pace. The reason she made up 40m in 150 meters and LOOKED like she sped up is because Kiyeng was moving backwards. Plain and simple. Kiyeng literally begins to stop running after she crosses the line with 400m to go, which is what one presumably does after completing a race. She jogs until Coburn catches up. Coburn didn't burn herself out pulling a Prefontaine with 250m to go. Coburn maintained pace the entire way and was walking the razor's edge, as she needed to do to have a chance at sub 9. She didn't slow down noticeably or look exhausted- the woman is an experienced pro, world champ, and very smart tactician. There is nothing in that video that even suggests she ran like that last 400m like a nube and blew up with 200m to go. She was tired and lost focus for a split second on that water barrier, and that was it. Recovered admirably and ran it in, I might add. Whether she ultimately would have outkicked Kiyeng is neither here nor there when judging what caused the fall, or trying to blame it on "impatience" as our friend Ray (speculatively and wrongly) did.
My take on it is that Emma paced that race about as perfectly as she could have given she knew it would be a maximal effort to break 9. Looked like she would have missed by just a touch if she stayed upright, but I don't see anything at all after rewatching that race multiple times to suggest she sped up to catch Kiyeng, and in doing so botched the race.
Credit to both women- that was an exciting and tough run. I'm still shocked Kiyeng recovered for the win, and impressed Coburn rallied to finish respectably despite fatigue and what must've been devastation. Good luck to them both at the Games!