Take that haters: Cranny 1, Schweizer 2. Bowerman with another 1-2 at the Trials

I did not post at the time because there was all this love going and I knew I'd be crucified but I was suspicious when they ran that 5000 time trial a couple years ago with only 3 guys and a pacer and all three nearly went under 13:00. No Americans ever did anything close to that in international competitions with larger, competitive fields. Just seemed totally out of the box.

Karissa runs just like the Alabama gal.

michiganrunner55 wrote:

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Seeing Cranny give love to Shelby in her post-race interview makes it pretty clear where Jerry's group is at. Very reminiscent of Alberto's athlete's reaction as he was under investigation. I am now firmly of the opinion that the entire group is doping. Doping is such a big part of these athlete's lifestyles that they don't even have the sense to pretend to be outraged at Shelby getting busted. They just assume since they are so comfortable with the idea of doping everyone else is too.

Stupid assumption...Let me pose this question you really think Fisher would dope? The talent and intelligence that young man has...your comments are idiotic

Is this a serious response. Seb Coe was unbelievably talented and extremely smart, anyone want to die on a hill saying he didn't dope? The same could be said of Salazaar, Rupp, etc. There was an anonymous poll of Olympic athletes a few years ago about whether they would dope, knowing they wouldn't get caught, even if they knew it would take a decade or more off their life if it meant winning the gold medal. Suprise the vast majority of athletes said they would dope.

I've spent enough years in the sport to be cynical and usually events don't play out in a way that gives me a new faith in clean sport.

I think the dopers have flawed personalities and are vulnerable from a young age and then exploited by doping coaches and programs and are then complicit as adults. Lance was encouraged to dope when he was as young as 16 by national team coaches/doctors and the drugs helped endurance but also caused cancer. doping is an awful affair.

really? she is has a pretty heavy body style i think

i thought it was weird in an interview recently that she said she wasn't big on doing double sessions in a day. what world class runner doesn't live by the double session? i am poser and do doubles when i can knowing how beneficial they are.

i agree, it is sad and leaves a dirty feeling

Yeah they definitely ate their burritos before the race. Burrito Track Club strikes again!

Seeing Cranny give love to Shelby in her post-race interview makes it pretty clear where Jerry's group is at. Very reminiscent of Alberto's athlete's reaction as he was under investigation. I am now firmly of the opinion that the entire group is doping. Doping is such a big part of these athlete's lifestyles that they don't even have the sense to pretend to be outraged at Shelby getting busted. They just assume since they are so comfortable with the idea of doping everyone else is too.[/quote]

That was super disappointing as I have really enjoyed watching her run. Probably even more so with the cross hanging around neck. Nothing worse than a fake Christian.

Your user name says it all about you. No reason, just ego.

And, that fact that you are out to lunch grinding your teeth with hate.

Dopers tend to be talented but also very ambitious, and they have zero guilt about what they are doing and even less about lying about it. But there is no one personality type. They can be good or bad, loud or reserved, mean or nice. The main thing is that they don't care. They have decided that this is what you have to do, and see doping as necessary. And that is hard to argue with. The dopers are realists. When you see these teams dominating their domestic competition with runners setting big prs, they are not trying to hide what they are doing. They are just very confident that they cannot be caught.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

michiganrunner55 wrote:

Stupid assumption...Let me pose this question you really think Fisher would dope? The talent and intelligence that young man has...your comments are idiotic

Is this a serious response. Seb Coe was unbelievably talented and extremely smart, anyone want to die on a hill saying he didn't dope? The same could be said of Salazaar, Rupp, etc. There was an anonymous poll of Olympic athletes a few years ago about whether they would dope, knowing they wouldn't get caught, even if they knew it would take a decade or more off their life if it meant winning the gold medal. Suprise the vast majority of athletes said they would dope.

I've spent enough years in the sport to be cynical and usually events don't play out in a way that gives me a new faith in clean sport.

It is funny that people say "stupid assumption" when you base your argument on a positive test within the group, and then back their position up by saying the he wouldn't dope because he seems like a smart, nice guy

I'm particularly interested in the inexplicable Simpson/Brazier performances yesterday, especially Brazier. Both have been very consistent but what we saw yesterday was strange. Simpson was never in the race off a moderate early pace and faded badly. Brazier was 51 at the 400, also a moderate pace, in second place with a spot secured and ended up jogging the last 50 meters.

Now we know for a fact that positive tests are often withheld from the public for long periods of time, even years. I'm just speculating now, but I'm wondering if they both got notice (like Houlihan) and were told if they competed and made the team they would be "outed". So they tanked to avoid being outed.

In Houlihan's case I'm speculating she said she was going to fight it so they took preemptive action and outed her before the trials.

I know it's sounds crazy but remember the film *9.79 where it was discovered years later that 6 of the 8 finalists in the Oly 100 tested positive and it was believed track and field turned it's head to avoid credibility questions about the sport.

It's not out of the question that many positive tests are never revealed.

Just my opinion...attack if you wish.

Jenny is old. Donavan has had injuries and other than 2019, had a history of some pretty big epic fails.

It's been said before. Everyone in the pool gets tested. So avoiding races, while maybe helpful in the short-term, does not prevent ALL testing.

daily mail t&f wrote:

Jenny is old. Donavan has had injuries and other than 2019, had a history of some pretty big epic fails.

It's been said before. Everyone in the pool gets tested. So avoiding races, while maybe helpful in the short-term, does not prevent ALL testing.

Some are tested more than others.

Both were strongly favored to make the team. I've heard or seen nothing that suggest they were not in good form. The point is are the athletes being protected when caught if they cooperate. Houlihan did not and they nailed her. Simpson/Brazier may have tanked to avoid a long banishment while giving the appearance of just having a bad race.

It's similar to if you confess to a crime you'll get a lesser sentence than if you plead innocent and are then found guilty.

JMysterio wrote:

I'm particularly interested in the inexplicable Simpson/Brazier performances yesterday, especially Brazier. Both have been very consistent but what we saw yesterday was strange. Simpson was never in the race off a moderate early pace and faded badly. Brazier was 51 at the 400, also a moderate pace, in second place with a spot secured and ended up jogging the last 50 meters.

imo Brazier made some pretty huge tactical errors in this race. One of the key things that's hammered into most 800 runners early is that you get one move -- you can't change gears twice, and if you go too early or too late, you either run out of track or get cooked down the home stretch. It looked to me like Brazier started his push around 320m into the race to move up from fifth to second and then ended up in no-man's-land after Jewett gapped the field. That's a really tough place to run, and he just didn't have anything left to match the moves Murphy and Hoppel started around 550m in. This issue aside from the alleged injuries.

Simpson is 34 in an event where the sweet spot age range is probably 24-28. Three rounds is tough, 90+ degrees is tough, and losing a year to covid is rougher for the older athletes in the field who need to time their tapers more carefully (see Nick Symmonds' discussions on his 2016 trials run). No matter what her performance was today, Simpson is still one of the GOATs of American mid-d running.

Yep someone mentioned it here, the throws coach with his video saying USADA claiming they wouldn't be testing but they did in fact test Shelby.

It's pretty obvious only the dumb ones or the lazy ones get caught because it's stunningly easy to beat the teating system even when on PEDs.

And you have them supporting Shelby candidly, so either Shelby was cheating on her own away from the team or the whole team is on the sauce and we have a Tour de France mentality where they subconsciously justify cheating because "everyone's doing it." Culture is a big thing. We are a product of our environment.

And lastly, the fact that WADA withholds some bans or positives from being public is disgraceful. Put it out publicly as soon as it happens. No under the tables plea deals or bribes. This is ridiculous. Shelby tested positive in December. Did WADA even say anything? Or did Shelby just finally come out of the closet because the trials were about to happen? We need more transparency and indifference from USADA and WADA.

With Brazier, remember it's a qualifying race. Second or third is as good as first. 51 at 400 when you've run virtually back to back 51's for a 1:42 doesn't seem it should waste him so badly to a 1:47. It's possible he gave up when he knew he was done ala Suzy Hamilton but he doesn't strike me as someone who does that unless there was another reason.

Simpson...well she ran 3:58 in Doha with rounds and she looked fine in the rounds here. Her case isn't as suspicious because she's been around longer but as I said, T&F doesn't want their popular idols getting known as dirty because of losing credibility with the fans. That 100 Seoul fiasco came out years after the race...except for Johnson who had been suspect previously.

Walmart Superstore wrote:

Why does this shut up the haters? This proves the haters right - that Bowerman is doping.

"proves"

America, stop cutting funding to education.