Is 3:15 doable for my next marathon cycle?

Certainly doable. You already ran 3:24 and you are young. It should not take 5-10 years to get to Boston.

I went from a 3:30 debut to 3:11 in 6 months, with no competitive running background, at age 48.

Just lose the weight and do the work.

Easy days easy, 9-9:30 pace is fine. Hard days hard. Long runs in between, say 8:00. Don't eat before you run. Taper and go!

based on those 5 x 1mi paces, I'd say you're in the 3:15-3:20 range, all other things being normal with volume and such. Depending on what you consider 80% intensity of course.

But- I'll let you know in 3 weeks. I'm about at those paces and am 2-1/2 weeks out from marathon day after nearing completion of the Pfitz 18/70 plan.

I gauge it probably by heart rate/feel--I just got a smart watch and am figuring it out, so am used to running with my normal Timex.

Loosely based, this is what I go by:

EZ--10-20%, talking, breathing thru nose

Moderate--40-50%, talking, breathing steady thru nose and mouth (Saturday run pace at MIT)

Tempo/Reps--80% I was able to talk in 1-word sentences but felt uncomfortable, breathing was hard but not all over the place, but my legs definitely felt it lol

There's no science behind these; this is me guessing at it. I should get an HRM and actually use real data. I know the watch has an HRM but those aren't accurate. I got a Garmin Fenix 5S from a friend at a good price through MIT.

Thank you for the kind words! LRC can be tough but there's good people here too.

Thank you! It was also 92'F so in good weather those times would have even been faster.

If I had to ballpark it, I'd say 3:15-ish myself, objectively.

Keep us updated!

Yep, you got it. I do my LRs at 8:00 pace with the running group in Columbus.

Am at 50-55 consistently now, no injuries, steady. Ran 9 today EZ after yesterday's workout, BUT am taking tomorrow off. LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!

16 at 8:00 pace on Saturday. We have a few water stops where people grab water, so it's not a true 16-mi. straight run like I'd do before joining MIT but sometimes they will push the pace to 7:45-ish to compensate.

I could go to 70-80 if I really wanted to but I also have a busy life and while I love running I also try to have balance in my life too :)

I was going to also do Pfitz 18/55 (I have Advanced Marathoning, 2nd. ed.) but am in MIT now (Marathoner In Training) so I may do Pfitz later on, or use Faster Road Racing to get my 5k/10k times down.

I was aiming for a goal time of 7:10-7:20 for the tempos, realistically, due to the heat, but when I got out there I was feeling strong and looked down at my watch for the first one and it was 6:45. I was very surprised!

I found this story--it's a woman who ran 4:02 and got down to 2:58. But she had to go all the way up to 90 mpw. Plus, she was a master's runner. She uses similar training as me--LR on Saturday, medium run mid-week, a tempo day and lots of EZ running.

Fueled by the exhilarating sense of accomplishment from my hard work, I continued to train and race two marathons a year for the next four years. Each race I progressively lowered my time and earned a Master’s Champion title along the way.

My final marathon came in 64 minutes faster than my first at 2:58:41 at age 42.

Soon I joined running groups in town and found a tribe of like-minded people who were as obsessed with running as I was. I added strength training twice a week and trail running once a week. Gradually, started building my weekly mileage up from 30 to 40 to 60 miles per week, eventually regularly clocking months of 70 and 80 mile weeks. Finally, I topped out at 90 miles in a single week.

In a typical week, I ran a hard track session on Tuesday with the running group, a fast tempo run ending at a brewery on Thursday, ran a medium-length, medium-fast run on Saturday, with a long run up to 22 miles on Sunday. The days in between were slower, coming in a 8-10 miles.

It does say she rarely get injured, although she claims she's not talented.

Anyone under 3 hours is pretty talented.

"Is it genetics? Special training? Hidden talent?

Sure, there’s got to be at least a little genetic ability in me, but maybe not as much as you’d think. My dad was a life-long recreational runner, diligently marking his three morning miles on a wall calendar in the kitchen every other day.

But there are no elite athletes in my family tree, far from it."

Then she has this:

"I rarely took a day off and rarely got injured."

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

Splits: 3:34, 3:37, 3:24, 3:20, 3:30, 3:25, 3:30, 3:28, 3:30, 3:30, 3:31, 3:22

90s rest, 80% effort, loop course on a road with a slight incline/slope, 88'F, somewhat humid

jecht wrote:

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

Splits: 3:34, 3:37, 3:24, 3:20, 3:30, 3:25, 3:30, 3:28, 3:30, 3:30, 3:31, 3:22

90s rest, 80% effort, loop course on a road with a slight incline/slope, 88'F, somewhat humid

I think your over-thinking things a tad.

jecht wrote:

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

Splits: 3:34, 3:37, 3:24, 3:20, 3:30, 3:25, 3:30, 3:28, 3:30, 3:30, 3:31, 3:22

90s rest, 80% effort, loop course on a road with a slight incline/slope, 88'F, somewhat humid

Never seen a workout like that. 800s at half marathon pace?

Better would be 6 x 800 at 3:05-3:15.

It's very doable. You would probably beat Usain Bolt, too.

HITHEREYOU wrote:

jecht wrote:

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

Splits: 3:34, 3:37, 3:24, 3:20, 3:30, 3:25, 3:30, 3:28, 3:30, 3:30, 3:31, 3:22

90s rest, 80% effort, loop course on a road with a slight incline/slope, 88'F, somewhat humid

I think your over-thinking things a tad.

I will echo this. I'd say for this build follow what the group is doing and get through a marathon block to get in a consistent rhythm. You'll see significant gains early on just from running more and doing faster stuff. At a certain point the gains will take a bit longer and that's okay too. There's a lot of solid people in your training group and the guys in charge do a pretty good job there.

Run that marathon and have a mark on the board and go from there. I'm a big fan of being a bit conservative with things if you're new to it. Negative splitting marathons is pretty fun too. I did that at Columbus in '19.

jecht wrote:

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

It's a great workout but I think there are better ones for the marathon, specifically. Keep in mind you're preparing for 26.2 miles. But you're doing repeats that are only 1/2 mile. Longer repeats, like 1-2 miles are much better for the marathon, in my opinion. So are longer tempo runs, building up to 50-60 minutes.

I used to do 800's like you, in my marathon build ups (10 x 800, "yasso 800s") and I'd found that while great confidence and fitness builders, they weren't the best in building endurance for this distance. When I ditched these and went to longer stuff in the Pfitzinger 55-70 plan, was when I was able to go from a 3:47 marathon to 3:13, this winter (in terrible conditions, 39F, rain, flooded course). But that's 48-yr-old hobby-jogger me. Something different might work for you.

GettingFasterDude wrote:

jecht wrote:

Is a 12x800 a good marathon workout?

It's a great workout but I think there are better ones for the marathon, specifically. Keep in mind you're preparing for 26.2 miles. But you're doing repeats that are only 1/2 mile. Longer repeats, like 1-2 miles are much better for the marathon, in my opinion. So are longer tempo runs, building up to 50-60 minutes.

I used to do 800's like you, in my marathon build ups (10 x 800, "yasso 800s") and I'd found that while great confidence and fitness builders, they weren't the best in building endurance for this distance. When I ditched these and went to longer stuff in the Pfitzinger 55-70 plan, was when I was able to go from a 3:47 marathon to 3:13, this winter (in terrible conditions, 39F, rain, flooded course). But that's 48-yr-old hobby-jogger me. Something different might work for you.

The group's training plan called for those 12x800s back in July, so we did them but I didn't question it. When I trained on my own in 2019 I did 4x1600m and 5x1600m workouts.

Yeah, lately I've been focusing on tempo runs, LRs, hills and increasing my volume. Good post and I think my training group uses a modified Pfitzinger's (I have the 2nd edition). I appreciate your posts GFD; you seem to know what you are talking about.

jecht wrote:). I appreciate your posts GFD; you seem to know what you are talking about.

Seriously, I don’t know s**t but thanks. Hopefully we’ll be back here soon plotting sub 3.

GettingFasterDude wrote:

jecht wrote:). I appreciate your posts GFD; you seem to know what you are talking about.

Seriously, I don’t know s**t but thanks. Hopefully we’ll be back here soon plotting sub 3.

THAT'S RIGHT! I'm shooting for 3:15 or better.

Did 1 up, 4@tempo effort, 1 down (6:55 average, ranging between 6:54 and 6:59) and 137 bpm on the heart monitor. A brisk effort.

Fleet Feet has tempo pace for a 3:15 marathoner (7:26) at 7:02/mi. and their interval pace at 6:24. I ran the tempo at 6:55 and felt like I had a bit left over. Gonna be conservative for the race--go out at 7:40 for the first few miles and ease down into my race pace.