Big development: Woman who falsely testified in Jarrion Lawson case is one who popped Houlihan. Houlihan ordered a carne asada b

I would like to see the science behind oral availability. She could have taken a large dose orally if she's trying to avoid detection. I doubt the measurements are so exact.

There is no “journalism” on this site. Certainly not over the last day. No journalist relies on their, “bulls-it detector” to determine what’s true or not. I’m not saying intuition is not a journalistic tool, but it’s just an entry point for investigation and a determination of the facts. What was written was an opinion piece. Writing such an opinion piece permanently undermines any ability to execute true journalism on this story going forward, or even if done, to have people believe it. There has been an erosion in this regard across even the world of serious journalism, but what we are reading here on this site isn’t even close.

Regarding the claim that there's no way you'd accidentally eat a pig offal burrito while thinking it was a carne asada burrito...well, that's probably true, but it's worth noting that there could easily have been SOME scraps of the offal in there without anybody noticing at all. Of course, they did notice that the burritos tasted a bit questionable, so maybe there was a mix of meat products.

I put in several years as a short-order cook, so I can definitely picture it happening. Plus, these guys are trying to make money, and profit margins are slim, so why waste a few scraps of meat that are lying on the grill? Just throw them in with the steak, and nobody will notice the difference...

I'm just speculating, of course. I guess what matters in this scenario is the details regarding how much offal would be needed to give a 5ng or whatever reading 10 hrs after the meal? A whole burrito's worth, or just a tiny morsel? Some of those tests are extremely sensitive and will detect just about any amount whatsoever of the targeted substance. As for this particular test, I don't know the details. Maybe that's been addressed already? It just seems like an obvious line of inquiry - how much offal would you have to eat to trigger a positive, i.e. is the excuse plausible?

If you think you need to keep a receipt for it for later proof, you shouldn’t eat it.

It’s the Olympic year, you are an Olympic favorite. You train at the most scientifically advanced running center in the world and you are eating at an “authentic Mexican food truck” and order a burrito of mysterious meat. Idiot or cheat? Which one?

Ace_of_Base wrote:

Jonathan Gault - can you please confirm how much Pig liver/or whatever a 120 lbs female would need to eat to score a 5ng/ml test?

This argument that i cant tell the difference between steak and pig organs is asanine. I can accept that a dirty food truck may cook the same meat on the same skillet and you get some pieces or cross over of the grease but I highly doubt that could trigger 5ng/ml. Please interview a scientist on this.

Multiple studies have already been posted in the other thread. It took about a pound of pork meat to reach similar nandrolone urine levels in those studies, for unspecified size of test subjects. So it is is the larger than normal, but not a crazy amount of meat for one meal. Plausible.

In this case, the burrito or food truck could likely be red herrings from the innocent grasping at straws looking for an explanation.

In reality, Ben Johnson says, looking back, it was a ‘supposed friend’ that spiked the drink.

You'd probably have to eat the offal of the coveted "nandrolone" pig -- i hear it's all the rage in Oregon

But some scraps, ingested orally, going through digestion -- doubt that's showing up in a test. Like saying your drug test came back positive for heroin and you pointed to your poppy seed bagel you had for breakfast.

burrito connoisseur wrote:

how much offal would you have to eat to trigger a positive, i.e. is the excuse plausible?

More than 10 oz. for levels found in Houlinan sample.

frail martini wrote:

Where are you getting 2.5x the limit?

The men’s upper limit is 2ng/ml, women’s is 5.

I don’t think we’ve actually learned what her reading was yet, just that it was over 5ng/ml.

Also, Lawson didn’t test positive for nandrolone, his was for trenbolone. Comparing the values doesn’t do much.

Women's max level is 2ng/ml. Changed some time before 2006. I'd love to believe Shelby, but it sure seems like she doped and got caught. The omission of it being a carne asada order is very strange. It's a pretty far-fetched thing to believe, and unlike Lawson she doesn't seem to have jumped through all the hoops to prove her case e.g. going back to test the meat. The it was greasy thing doesn't quite get it done for me when you have six months and it's a substantial amount over the legal limit.

Pork Asada Burrito wrote:

rojo wrote:

2) Houlihan didn't actually order a pork burrito  - she ordered carne asada. . . . So who is more likely to have messed up - Shelby or the food truck?

Could she not tell the difference between carne asada and pork? Or did she grab-and-go and ate what she was given? It is likely that someone did order a pork burrito and got her carne asada burrito by mistake.

Shelby is responsible for eating the wrong burrito. Any food establishment will fix an order if asked to. A food establishment cannot be held responsible for someone eating the wrong meal and not giving them the opportunity to fix it.

I like the idea that she was playing the Rupp-certified gray zone and a burrito sent her over the top.

That’s like ordering apple juice and getting orange instead. You should be able to tell right away:

theathletenotsospecial wrote:

making a decision based on only one sides presentation of evidence has never, and will never be, a good idea. Now, letsrun is letsrun, but still, to hold some sense of credibility you can't reiterate nike press releases and call them columns. It's amateur hour at best.

For BTC's side of events to be true, it must be true that 1) The truck served pig with the substance, 2) they screwed up her order, 3) she ate there, and 4) WADA tested her after eating there. It seems highly unlikely (like less than 1% ) that all four events would happen, and that they would happen on the same day. Not to mention, if one wants to criticize WADA's past, it seems only appropriate to criticize Nike's prior misgivings.

And let's say it is a .01% chance. With the tens of thousands of drug tests that happen every year, it will happen to someone every year. That is simple HS math.

10oz prepared or is that raw?

I do think Jon Gault's article is really good, well-written and lays it all out, even though it's an opinion piece. I think I've come to different conclusions but am better informed for having read it.

You know, Letsrun may be on Shelby's side (meaning founders and staff) but you guys sure pick pictures that think she's guilty. Trying to have it both ways, huh?

https://twitter.com/letsrundotcom/status/1404867745284603913

may be too stupid to be olympic champ wrote:

If you think you need to keep a receipt for it for later proof, you shouldn’t eat it.

It’s the Olympic year, you are an Olympic favorite. You train at the most scientifically advanced running center in the world and you are eating at an “authentic Mexican food truck” and order a burrito of mysterious meat. Idiot or cheat? Which one?

I would say both. She's a cheat because there's obviously more to this story and we're not gonna get the real story from BTC no matter how hard people on here want to convince us they're so pure. But sue's also an idiot for wanting us to believe that she isn't a doper. I'm honestly entertained by all the conspiracies and scenarios people are creating on here to excuse a legit doper. It's fun to read. I have a feeling we'll get more of these posts as time goes on.

think first wrote:

burrito connoisseur wrote:

how much offal would you have to eat to trigger a positive, i.e. is the excuse plausible?

More than 10 oz. for levels found in Houlinan sample.

According to a quick Google, the average Chipotle burrito has 4oz of meat.

A few points:

1. I can’t help but think that the brojos and JG would be jumping up and down with glee and ready to crucify had the exact same thing happened to Rupp or Dibaba (for example). I think that whether there’s a suspicion or not, better for the sport to not have double standards.

2. I don’t mind relying on statements from the BTC teams for now, especially about the AIU stipulating that it wasn’t injections. If they disagree, then either come out and say so or put out the hearing transcripts. There’s no reason I know of for the transcripts and reports to be hidden for months.

3. If someone in a lab was caught being dishonest in the recent past, they obviously shouldn’t be part of drug testing in any way … or they should at least be given a 4-year ban.

Don’t know if Shelby is innocent, but given rate of wrongful criminal convictions in the U.S., it is inevitable that some innocent athletes will be convicted.

Add "Carnitas Houlihan" to the likes of Doorbell Mo and others. Good company!

jackamo wrote:

10oz prepared or is that raw?

Prepared, I suppose. Amount comes from a study performed on people, I suppose they didn't feed them 10 oz. raw meat.

Agreed, Letsrun isn't really journalism. More like sports commentary. Pieces like these are really for hot takes and driving clicks.