Passant wrote:
I never understand the psychology of women.
Might as well shorten it to this
Passant wrote:
I never understand the psychology of women.
Might as well shorten it to this
Stop the personal attacks. Sound like I put in doubt some inner believe on you.
"I'm moron"? : I have lived long enough to know who I'm and my social place.
Imagine running 30:37 for second and getting lapped.
Those files were linked here, but are now gone:
paul72 wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
This was in the recap, but this is ridiculous
1k: 2:56.12
2k: 2:56.07 (5:52.19)
3k: 2:55.72 (8:47.91)
4k: 2:55.42 (11:43.33)
5k: 2:55.44 (14:38.75)
6k: 2:55.69 (17:34.44)
7k: 2:55.93 (20:30.37)
8k: 2:55.48 (23:25.85)
9k: 2:55.20 (26:21.05)
10k: 2:45.77 (29:06.82)
This is exactly the same consistency of split we saw from from Cheptegei over 37.5 laps of both his 5 and 10k records.
There are clearly 2 factors (legal ones we know of ^^) helping these athletes - shoes and wavelight - the biggest by far is wavelight. The benefit of being able to run this evenly and not having to devote any mental energy to it (because you just lock onto a light and just run) may never be able to be quantified, but absolutely is huge. All 4 distance WRs destroyed where the km splits for 95% of the race (the final km doesn't matter because at that point you just run 2.5 laps as hard as you can to see how ultimately fast you can go) are within 1 second of each other - that is now enough of a sample set to point to even paced running really being huge and shoes have nothing to do with that. Looking at those split she basically ran 22.5 laps probably with a 0.5 second variation at most because her kilometer splits from start to 9km do not vary by more than 1.0 seconds (max is 0.94)
What would be interesting now is to get Jeptegei/Hassan to go after one of the records again without wavelight. Give them a pacemaker that can go 30% of the race and see what happens when they have to manage the pace judgement themselves. You can put any shoes on them at this point, they would not even be close to what they are doing now with the benefit of WL
huge factor-that 5000m WR by Gidey last year really made it evident how big an aid this is--more-so in the 10000 where a runner will be "solo" for 7000-8000m with minimal rabbiting--when you split through 5000m in 14:38 hard to get a female rabbit to go 5000m who would have to legit race that anyway!
Agree, and this to me is far more beneficial than a rabbit. The only situation in which a rabbit helps is with shielding from wind but even then this is offset if they can't run an even and constant pace and rhythm (which hardly any of them can). So in conditions which are good (little to no wind) the fact that you get absolutely perfect even pacing for the entire race vs potentially bad human pacing for maybe 30% of the race - the benefit is astronomical. I always think of Rudisha in London just running his perfect splits in that WR race (24.5, 49.2, 1.14.4) and how many races of his I saw botched by his idiotic training partner/pacemaking Sammy Tangui going out in 23.x, 48.x and then dying in the next 100m.
I still can't believe how even paced these guys are running. I mean I get it because the lights are perfectly even so it makes sense, but the fact they are varying by less than an second per kilometer for so many of them is just crazy to me. Going granular you're talking not more than an average variation in pace of 1/10th of a second per 100m! So for the bulk of that race she's running an average of 17.56 seconds per 100m so basically keeping between 17.5 and 17.6 seconds for 90 of them back to back! GTFOH.
don't buy into this one.
My friend, we have disagreed in the past, but we are 100% in agreement on the WAVELIGHT. Ridiculous that it is allowed.
` wrote:
My friend, we have disagreed in the past, but we are 100% in agreement on the WAVELIGHT. Ridiculous that it is allowed.
Fine but intelligence still matters. You can either run 29:06 with a wave light or you cannot. You are likely doping if you are a female and you can. Almost none of you can. It is NOT the wave light that matters most. The training, doping and shoes matter more. You are an idiot if you don’t see that.
Well isn't that what the first amendment is all about? :)
Agreeing to disagree is a beautiful thing but agreeing to agree is too ;-)
Final point from my side in general and why this to me is a far bigger deal than shoes - it's precedent. The sport has always had advancement in equipment (and yes for runners it's basically only the shoes we are talking about) - albeit with larger jumps in certain periods of time.
When Brooks introduced EVA it was a huge jump, when Nike introduced pebax-based foams in conjunction with a favorable geometry of stiff plate it was also a huge jump. But either way the sport has seen vast and long term consistent improvement in footwear from the days of Paavo Nurmi et al right through until now. So the same issues followers of the sport have now with shoes were probably the same issues followers of sport had at every moment there was a sizeable jump in tech/innovation. That's precedent.
Wavelight has no precedent at all. We have gone from inconsistent human pacemakers that sometimes are more of a hinderance rather than benefit to this - absolute to the hundreth of a second perfection. That WA just let this so quickly become normal and allowed without really researching/investigating it is baffling. If they did, they might have found out the astronomical advantage and said "you can have wavelight for half of the distance being run" and gently introduced this or even banned it/used it only for unofficial record attempts like the breaking 2 stuff. But if you are worried that now things are so unfair for athletes of the past and their performances in history, it's not the shoes you should be angry with.
another perspective wrote:
But also wavelight. It's a gamechanger for these WR attempts I'm telling you. Gidey got slapped in Monaco last year, but found 20 seconds with the wavelight. I know the spikes get the headlines, and they definitely help, but I think people are sleeping on how much the lights also help/arguably are more unfair.
Hellen Obiri has already commented on this. Anyone can get a pair of spikes at any meet, but if Hermens or Pineda strong arms a meet director of a wavelight meet to have just Hassan, or just Gidey, or just Cheptegei etc, shutting other athletes out of a WR attempt, there's not much other athletes can do except have their agent make their own meet. Then you have world class athletes racing lights with no competition instead of world class athletes racing each other/pushing the competition.
Just initial reactions
Fair point. With wave light pacing, you get the sense that there are a number of athletes capable of breaking or coming close to a world record. Certainly Kiplimo or Kipruto with wavelights could break or threaten the men's 10k, as could a few others the 5k. If wavelights and WR attempts are the new thing, more pple shd be given a chance. Put Hassan, and other world class 10k athletes in the same race then pace them with lights. If they are giving this opportunity to some athletes and not to others, then it's a problem.
yyyyy wrote:
Crazy there will soon be women running sub 14 minutes and sub 29 minutes
Bravo bravo...something high school boys have been able to do for decades..it's about time...I'm sooooooo impressed... /sarc
Who else has had the WR at mile and 10,000
sderd wrote:
Fine but intelligence still matters. You can either run 29:06 with a wave light or you cannot. You are likely doping if you are a female and you can. Almost none of you can. It is NOT the wave light that matters most. The training, doping and shoes matter more. You are an idiot if you don’t see that.
Kind of ironic you wrote "intelligent still matters" then followed that up with a rant that offers nothing more than your f-ing opinion with not even a qualitative piece of data/info etc to base that opinion on.
You're an idiot if you don't see that.
Blame it on the wavelights...blame it on the shoes...blame it on PEDS...blah blah blah...Wave lights are not going to get you to a record if your body doesn't simply have what it takes....American runners are always making excuses and attempting to discredit African performantes.
Anthos wrote:
another perspective wrote:
But also wavelight. It's a gamechanger for these WR attempts I'm telling you. Gidey got slapped in Monaco last year, but found 20 seconds with the wavelight. I know the spikes get the headlines, and they definitely help, but I think people are sleeping on how much the lights also help/arguably are more unfair.
Hellen Obiri has already commented on this. Anyone can get a pair of spikes at any meet, but if Hermens or Pineda strong arms a meet director of a wavelight meet to have just Hassan, or just Gidey, or just Cheptegei etc, shutting other athletes out of a WR attempt, there's not much other athletes can do except have their agent make their own meet. Then you have world class athletes racing lights with no competition instead of world class athletes racing each other/pushing the competition.
Just initial reactions
Fair point. With wave light pacing, you get the sense that there are a number of athletes capable of breaking or coming close to a world record. Certainly Kiplimo or Kipruto with wavelights could break or threaten the men's 10k, as could a few others the 5k. If wavelights and WR attempts are the new thing, more pple shd be given a chance. Put Hassan, and other world class 10k athletes in the same race then pace them with lights. If they are giving this opportunity to some athletes and not to others, then it's a problem.
You think a piece of foam on your feet matters MORE than a metronome pacing you for 29 minutes straight, with no breaks? Are you an idiot?
Why do you think male pacers are not allowed for women's WRs? Why aren't pacers allowed to hop in halfway through the race? Ridiculous.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
sderd wrote:
Fine but intelligence still matters. You can either run 29:06 with a wave light or you cannot. You are likely doping if you are a female and you can. Almost none of you can. It is NOT the wave light that matters most. The training, doping and shoes matter more. You are an idiot if you don’t see that.
Kind of ironic you wrote "intelligent still matters" then followed that up with a rant that offers nothing more than your f-ing opinion with not even a qualitative piece of data/info etc to base that opinion on.
You're an idiot if you don't see that.
Just because your cognition is deficient doesn’t mean your ad hominem attacks matter. Grow up punk. I have heard you boast of being a mediocre semi pro 800m runner. Sad you know so little about the sport. The wave light is NOTHING without the fitness. How stupid are you? Also smarter people than you, such as myself, can run fairly even pace without the wave light. I would rather have the training, doping and shoe advantage.
` wrote:
You think a piece of foam on your feet matters MORE than a metronome pacing you for 29 minutes straight, with no breaks? Are you an idiot?
Why do you think male pacers are not allowed for women's WRs? Why aren't pacers allowed to hop in halfway through the race? Ridiculous.
Of course the shoes matte more than the lights. Let the wave lights pace you as you wear sandals. Good luck!
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Well isn't that what the first amendment is all about? :)
Agreeing to disagree is a beautiful thing but agreeing to agree is too ;-)
Final point from my side in general and why this to me is a far bigger deal than shoes - it's precedent. The sport has always had advancement in equipment (and yes for runners it's basically only the shoes we are talking about) - albeit with larger jumps in certain periods of time.
When Brooks introduced EVA it was a huge jump, when Nike introduced pebax-based foams in conjunction with a favorable geometry of stiff plate it was also a huge jump. But either way the sport has seen vast and long term consistent improvement in footwear from the days of Paavo Nurmi et al right through until now. So the same issues followers of the sport have now with shoes were probably the same issues followers of sport had at every moment there was a sizeable jump in tech/innovation. That's precedent.
Wavelight has no precedent at all. We have gone from inconsistent human pacemakers that sometimes are more of a hinderance rather than benefit to this - absolute to the hundreth of a second perfection. That WA just let this so quickly become normal and allowed without really researching/investigating it is baffling. If they did, they might have found out the astronomical advantage and said "you can have wavelight for half of the distance being run" and gently introduced this or even banned it/used it only for unofficial record attempts like the breaking 2 stuff. But if you are worried that now things are so unfair for athletes of the past and their performances in history, it's not the shoes you should be angry with.
Yes! There is a reason why women's records are NOT legitimate if a male pacer runs in them, and there is a reason why a pacer is NOT allowed to jump in halfway through. This ruins the spirit of competition when you have non-human aids keeping pace right beside you for the entire race. Why not just have a robot roll ahead for the entire race?
` wrote:
Why do you think male pacers are not allowed for women's WRs? Why aren't pacers allowed to hop in halfway through the race? Ridiculous.
Because they break the air resistance, which is significant when you're running 17 km/h
A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
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