Two more Kenyans banned for doping violations

Put food on the table. The same reason Russian athletes dope. Yet you don't defend them. Why?

Hunter-Galvan. That usually shuts Armstrong up for a while.

If we are to believe the reason for their ban, it is because it was a state-sponsored doping program. Different situation.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Thanks for coming up with excuses as to why Kenyan athletes cheat. They still cheat - whatever the reason.

I am not excusing them. Did you watch the video? Probably not.

They still cheat, whatever the reason. True; for those who cheat.

If you knew what having no money and no food to eat is like you might also consider taking drugs to try and change your life for the better.

If you can't understand this, then you lack empathy for human suffering.

Of course that while I understand their plight, I cannot condone their behavior because in the end, the cheaters will be taking prize money, sponsorship bonuses, glory, etc. from clean runners.

I am not that genetically gifted that I could be a great runner but I personally know one man who missed out on an Olympic medal because at least one, probably 3 cheaters finished ahead of him. It's disgusting.

But I understand why poor athletes may dope.

sfhgfhhdh wrote:

Alo alo wrote:

Put food on the table. The same reason Russian athletes dope. Yet you don't defend them. Why?

If we are to believe the reason for their ban, it is because it was a state-sponsored doping program. Different situation.

If Russian athletics had a state sponsored doping program they would also not be busting anyone for doping. Yet there they were, busting the most athletes. Hmmm.

You think China does not have a state sponsored doping program? A commie country?

Yet there they are, fully allowed to participate.

If a country like Kenya has rampant doping, it means that it is indirectly state sponsored as they refuse to do anything to resolve the situation. They should obviously be banned if we are to believe most athletes don't dope. Which is obviously fiction.

Seems a longtime now since kenyan doping was a "conspiracy theory"

At that stage there was only matthew kisorio and some 2-06 marathoner

Renato denied it existed which doesn't seem as credible now

just sayin wrote:

Seems a longtime now since kenyan doping was a "conspiracy theory"

At that stage there was only matthew kisorio and some 2-06 marathoner

Renato denied it existed which doesn't seem as credible now

The Kenyan 2:06 marathoner had changed allegiance to represent South Korea . Very unfortunate situation.

Coevett wrote:

C'mon man, some of what you say is plain ridiculous.

It's just objectively not true that 'the vast majority of top Kenyans are clean as a whistle'.

A significant percentage of elite Kenyans have been banned, including Olympic champions and former world record holders. Two of the top 3 1500m Kenyans bow banned. The former half marathon and full marathon world record holders banned. Five out of the top 11 Kenyan 800m runners from 2017 banned. Even the top Kenyan 400m runner banned.

A sensible and objective person would conclude at this point that a small minority of the top Kenyans are clean, if any.

Right!

Just we can assume that if a horde of Trumpers invade the White House, ...ALL MAGAers are deranged, deceived, lunatics. A small minority of MAGAers are sane, if any.

Alo alo wrote:

If a country like Kenya has rampant doping, it means that it is indirectly state sponsored as they refuse to do anything to resolve the situation.

No.

"Kenyan athletes who engage in doping do it in an uncoordinated, unsophisticated and opportunistic way, with no sign of an institutionalised system, according to a World Anti-Doping Agency report released on Thursday."

sfhgfhhdh wrote:

Alo alo wrote:

If a country like Kenya has rampant doping, it means that it is indirectly state sponsored as they refuse to do anything to resolve the situation.

No.

https://www.reuters.com/article/sport-doping-kenya/kenyan-athletes-caught-doping-do-it-in-uncoordinated-unsophisticated-way-wada-idINKCN1M7263

"Kenyan athletes who engage in doping do it in an uncoordinated, unsophisticated and opportunistic way, with no sign of an institutionalised system, according to a World Anti-Doping Agency report released on Thursday."

Please.

KiwiG wrote:

Hunter-Galvan. That usually shuts Armstrong up for a while.

Who?

Your argument is off-point . The issue is widespread cheating - which is undoubtedly occurring in Kenya. The reason why it is occurring - you say "to put food on the table" - is irrelevant unless doping is to be accepted for economic reasons.

sfhgfhhdh wrote:

Alo alo wrote:

If a country like Kenya has rampant doping, it means that it is indirectly state sponsored as they refuse to do anything to resolve the situation.

No.

https://www.reuters.com/article/sport-doping-kenya/kenyan-athletes-caught-doping-do-it-in-uncoordinated-unsophisticated-way-wada-idINKCN1M7263

"Kenyan athletes who engage in doping do it in an uncoordinated, unsophisticated and opportunistic way, with no sign of an institutionalised system, according to a World Anti-Doping Agency report released on Thursday."

Whether doping is state-sponsored or simply "opportunistic" it makes little difference if the outcome is largely the same, which is that the practice is endemic in those countries.

+1

sfhgfhhdh wrote:

Alo alo wrote:

If a country like Kenya has rampant doping, it means that it is indirectly state sponsored as they refuse to do anything to resolve the situation.

No.

https://www.reuters.com/article/sport-doping-kenya/kenyan-athletes-caught-doping-do-it-in-uncoordinated-unsophisticated-way-wada-idINKCN1M7263

"Kenyan athletes who engage in doping do it in an uncoordinated, unsophisticated and opportunistic way, with no sign of an institutionalised system, according to a World Anti-Doping Agency report released on Thursday."

And yet the manager of the 2016 Rio team was banned for taking bribes from athletes to inform them of 'random' tests. The manager of the 2018 Commonwealth team was the coach of Bett and had already had a teenage girl athlete get banned for EPO and then drop dead at 19. The case of Kiprop revealed that the practice of bribing Kenyan anti-doping testing for 'tea money' was endemic.

It's ironic that the same people who wave about that WADA report also claim that the high incidence of Kenyan busts somehow proves that WDA is engaged in a conspiracy against Kenyans and routinely cover up British and American dopers.

I agree with that list,but it seems they are very well protected.They almost never get caught.Also throw in france,morocco,italy, poland ,ukraine ,cuba ,south africa and netherlands,and perhaps australia,canada,china,japan,india and uganda.To reach the top leval athletes have to play the game,and that means a lot of doping.Its in all sports.

Coevett wrote:

It's just objectively not true that 'the vast majority of top Kenyans are clean as a whistle'.

A significant percentage of elite Kenyans have been banned, including Olympic champions and former world record holders. Two of the top 3 1500m Kenyans bow banned. The former half marathon and full marathon world record holders banned. Five out of the top 11 Kenyan 800m runners from 2017 banned. Even the top Kenyan 400m runner banned.

A sensible and objective person would conclude at this point that a small minority of the top Kenyans are clean, if any.

Is it objectively false?

You say "significant percentage" -- what is your ballpark estimate of that percentage?

In other words, since percentages require two numbers to calculate, how many (rough ballpark) have been banned, versus how many (rough ballpark) are there?

What is the ballpark estimate for "small minority" for the sensible and objective person?

Do reasonable, sensible, and objective persons consider "whereabouts failures" as evidence of using "banned substances or methods" known to give an advantage?

rekrunner wrote:

Is it objectively false?

It's objectively false that 'the vast majority of top Kenyans are clean as a whistle', yes,

Actually I'd bett that the majority is dirty.

Reason 1: 44% or more top athletes dope worldwide.

Reason 2: the IAAF thinks that Kenya is among the worst offenders.

Reason 3: recent busts confirm that Kenya is among the worst offenders.

Add 1 + 2 + 3: ridiculous the think that the vast majority is clean.

rekrunner wrote:

Do reasonable, sensible, and objective persons consider "whereabouts failures" as evidence of using "banned substances or methods" known to give an advantage?

WADA etc consider three whereabouts failures as sufficient circumstantial evidence of doping to make it an anti-doping rule offence and to award bans.

Clear enough?