If your job required you to get vaccinated, would you quit?

I don’t think I will be required to be vaccinated for my job.

For you, if avoiding this vaccine is more important than your job, then yes, move on and find something else that would never require this and pays you well.

Keep in my mind, there is a chance you may be restricted from flying possibly in the future and may face other potential restrictions.

Seriously thinking about leaving wrote:

huh what wrote:

Personally, I think this is an incredibly foolish hill to die on. Your odds of having an adverse reaction to a vaccine are north of 1 in 1,000,000.

That's only the short-term effects. Who knows if this new mRNA vaccine causes you to get cancer or some other life-threatening disease many years from now? The links between lung cancer, smoking, and asbestos weren't known right away.

How do you feel about the long term effects of the covid virus?

Try again

Detroit Free Press - “ Girl who was at center of police controversy at age 11 dies of COVID-19, family says”

At will state here. We can’t force anyone to get the vaccine, but they have no right to a job either. If we ask someone to do something, and they say no because of COVID numbers but also refuse to take the vaccine, then they will be let go that day. We don’t need to do a reorganization to fire people. We hire people to do a job, we provide the work, if they don’t do the job then someone else will.

Republicans keep pushing for corporate immunity, democrats keep trying to block it... in the real world no one would ever be able to prove they caught COVID at work and no decent lawyer would ever take it to trail. Maybe you’ll get a tiny settlement, probably not.

Lose your job over refusing to take the vaccine, then good luck in your future career and without any references from past employers. “He was employed here from 2008 to 2020. He was let go when he refused to take a vaccine to protect himself and the community. No other comment.”

Star wrote:

Keep in my mind, there is a chance you may be restricted from flying possibly in the future

It's not a concern for me. I've already been to a lot of the vacation destinations which require flying (Europe, Australia, Hawaii, Alaska, etc.). Have I seen everything out there that I'm interested in seeing? No, but there's still plenty of things to do and explore in the lower 48, so I'll be content.

I don't have any close relatives that live outside the country, nor have I ever applied for a job that which requires flying. For me, it would just be like a ban on racing the 1600 after high school. I still would have been able to race the 1500, the mile, the 3K, and so on.

lookz like this wrote:

huh what wrote:

"Personally, I think this is an incredibly foolish hill to die on. Your odds of having an adverse reaction to a vaccine are north of 1 in 1,000,000."

Not even close. Nearly 3% become sufficiently sick within 24 hours of the shot to become incapable of working for at least some time

"Even a young, healthy person has a 1 in 5,000 chance of dying if they get Covid.

"

In fact not one healthy young person has died from Covid

+1.

I'm slow by letsrun standards but time-trialed a solo 5:20 mile a few weeks ago.

Name me ONE person who was under 50 and in 5:20 mile shape or better just before he/she got the virus and died from it. I'm off to do an easy 10 miler and don't expect to get any examples proving me wrong when I get back.

For many of you, this would be a fate worse than death. Prime of your life D1 stud or local Trials hopeful with "just the flu, bruh!" to barely able to hobby jog.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/college-athletes-experienced-heart-damage-after-covid-19-study-67929

No, I wouldn’t. I don’t make emotional decisions like a little child would.

No.

Would I rather take a vaccine or get covid-19 every year and lose on average 2 weeks of training. Plus I can control when I get a vaccine. If I get covid in the days before a serious marathon or half that's it. Even if you were so self centered you didn't care about passing covid to others, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not get vaccinated.

Same boat here. This has been the plan all along to frighten us with some fake disease. Follow the money which is big Pharma. Will quit if forced to take some ridiculous “vaccine” which alters DNA, isn’t proven to work, and we need multiple dosages, AND need to still wear masks??! No way man. People need to wake up.

Apparently 50% of Riverside CA frontline workers are refusing. Some are awakening to this crime of humanity. Stand your ground my man ??

Honest question: why don’t you want to get the vaccine?

Is it the safety? If so, what would it take to convince you it’s safe? And if the answer involves testing the long-term impact of mRNA vaccines, why are you more concerned about that than the long-term impact of the virus (which, obviously, also generates mRNA)?

Is it the side effects of the vaccine?

Is it that you want to get COVID, because you think it might make your immune system better prepared to fight other coronaviruses that could be more deadly?

Lots of jobs, schools, and travel destinations require proof of vaccinations. This isn't anything new.

ptw84 wrote:

Honest question: why don’t you want to get the vaccine?

Is it the safety? If so, what would it take to convince you it’s safe? And if the answer involves testing the long-term impact of mRNA vaccines, why are you more concerned about that than the long-term impact of the virus (which, obviously, also generates mRNA)?

Is it the side effects of the vaccine?

Is it that you want to get COVID, because you think it might make your immune system better prepared to fight other coronaviruses that could be more deadly?

I don't want to get the pfizer or moderna vaccine as I want to await longer term studies.

From what I've read so far, I don't have an issue with the Oxford/AZ one.

The main reason for not taking one is potential side effects. Both immediate and long term.

The 43k participants in the phase 3 trial don't impress me too much.

Only half of those got the actual vaccine, it's quite plausable 1 in 20k side effects have not been picked up on. (As mentioned in another thread, the rushed 2009 swine flu vaccine caused narcolepsia (often the severe kind) in 1:18400)

Obviously it's now in phase 4, but still, under normal circumstances, it's very much trials still.

I realize the data is currently be pouring in, so those rare, pretty immediate side effects (if any) will hopefully be documented soon.

I am very much open to changing my mind, but will probaly take the Oxford/AZ by summer (planning some extensive travelling come september) instead of awaiting long term studies on Moderna or Pfizer.

Why risking covid-19 instead of a vaccine?

It's risk/reward really.

I am not concerned about catching covid as I am fairly healthy, far below average sociable even under normal circumstances and even less so now.

I have contact with a fixed cohort of abot 8 people weekly (half of them in same household) and less than 10 more people sporadically for the duration of the pandemic. (Maybe 1-2 such contacts a month during the pandemic. (Don't judge me, I need me some occasional drugs and also maintain SOME contact with long term friends)

I also live in a country with very low spread compared to most, and in a part of that country again with very little spread. (less than 20 positive cases in my municipality for the duration of the pandemic, most of them workers from other countries that I don't socialize with at all. 0 dead in this municipality for the duration of the pandemic.)

I am very open to changing my mind on taking the pfizer or moderna jab once better data become public, but we'll see as I expect to the the Oxford/AZ before I change my mind on that.

Oh, and I work from home even before the pandemic, so obviously no pressure to take the vaccine from an employer.

The phase III trials were very much in line with standard trials for vaccines, corners were not cut. You can argue you, personally, do not have enough confidence, but that doubt should be extended to all new biopharma/medical technology then.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551877/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944327/

Sure you can worry about the new vaccine technology - but I would strongly argue such "severe adverse affects" are much more likely to come from a COVID-19 infection than from a vaccine.

The narcolepsy after H1N1 vaccines example you give is contested at best - plus I believe the suspected causative agent was a squalene-like adjuvant... and no adjuvants are present in the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna Vaccines (or Ox/AZ). Furthermore, it's not like Chimpanzee adenoviruses vaccines (or any adenovirus vaccine vetors) have an extensive history of issue free use...

Why would I get the vaccine? My risk level according to

https://covid19risktools.com:8443/riskcalculator

is way low.

The vaccine should be an option and each person should make a decision consulting with his or her own physician.

There is no reason to believe a person will get COVID year after year. Do you get flu year after year? (blah blah blah flu tax is relatively ineffective and there's always the non-targeted strains around) I cannot remember the last time I had a fever. And yes, I had a bunch as a kid.

And if you believe SCIENCE, or um, Nature, you also believe there is no such thing as asymptomatic spread. Here's the link

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

See Results section on page 2 of the PDF.

Since there is no asymptomatic spread (believe SCIENCE!), let's please quit the restrictions. If you are sick, minimize contact - stay home, get tested, and hopefully don't progress beyond chicken soup, but we have many good drugs if needed & maybe you need tone more aggressive depending on your circumstances. And if not sick, there is no reason to get tested. You know, kind of like every other viral respiratory spread disease we have known ever.

Also, COVID was perfectly annihilated in Wuhan. Same article. Last paragraph on page 3 of the PDF, runs a bit onto page 4.

Maybe you disbelieve this Nature article. How are you picking and choosing your peer reviewed science?

Not saying the trials are not according to procedure.

But phase 3 clinical trials are not on a large enough population to catch those rare side effects.

I agree that severe adverse affects are more likely to come from covid-19 rather than a vaccine.

But as I said, I have every reason to believe based on where I live and how I behave that the risk of ME catching a covid infection is VERY small.

I'd argue it's probably quite a few orders of magnitude less than the average person in my country that don't have much spread to begin with, so for ME I rather wait.

If you think narcolepsy from swineflu shot is contested at best you have not seen the data from Finland and Norway. The tragedy with the roll out on that one is also that they allowed and HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that children took it.

I realize adenovirus vaccines are also fairly new, but they have existed for more than a decade and the side effect data on Oxford/AZ looks better to me. (Needs to be said I also have SOME if not too severe allergies (anymore) and the Pfizer one doesn't look very good for allergic people)

And as I said, I am open to changing my mind with better data.

IF for some reason, the infection takes of where I live without the Oxford/AZ being available, I might also reconsider.

You do not understand the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic. COVID-19 has a ~24hr window of significant pre-symptomatic contagiousness.https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2008457 Nature Communications is not as prestigious as Nature. So pretty clueless appeal-to-authority there. It's a good study though, shows how effective Wuhan style extreme lockdowns are (2-3 months of complete closure) - not something we would ever want to resort to.