For those who oppose restrictions and won’t take the vaccine

Sally Vicks wrote:

Herd immunity wrote:

Sweden had a little mini-bump in deaths in early November that is already trending back down again. They've had it right all along.

Let’s say you’re correct for a moment.

They’ve still failed to save their economy and failed to reach herd immunity.

If most people refuse to get a vaccine then we’re stuck - the economy will continue to suffer.

Also they're wrong. They just don't understand how Sweden reports deaths:

Sweden left everything open their economy still got destroyed.

People will not behave as normal as long as this virus is widespread. Plus had we done absolutely nothing the hospitals would not have been able to handle the workload.

There are practical issues at play that I never hear the anti maskers and anti vaxxers address.

Sally Vicks wrote:

Herd immunity wrote:

Sweden had a little mini-bump in deaths in early November that is already trending back down again. They've had it right all along.

Let’s say you’re correct for a moment.

They’ve still failed to save their economy and failed to reach herd immunity.

If most people refuse to get a vaccine then we’re stuck - the economy will continue to suffer.

The big picture is that peoples' freedom is safeguarded. Sweden's economy is tied to the global economy which will ebb and flow. More importantly, is people trusting the government to not impose authoritarian rule over a disease our CDC claims is no worse than the flu.

panicheads behind the wheel wrote:

The big picture is that peoples' freedom is safeguarded. Sweden's economy is tied to the global economy which will ebb and flow. More importantly, is people trusting the government to not impose authoritarian rule over a disease our CDC claims is no worse than the flu.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.htmlhttps://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

Here's a synthesis of many COVID IFR estimates (including the CDC which you fail to interpret correctly) compared with flu death rates in the US.

"Just the flu" = I can't do basic math

Can't you see! Flu might be more deadly for 8 year olds!! Given the mental ages these moron's posts are indicative of... maybe I understand their arguments now.

Harambe wrote:

panicheads behind the wheel wrote:

The big picture is that peoples' freedom is safeguarded. Sweden's economy is tied to the global economy which will ebb and flow. More importantly, is people trusting the government to not impose authoritarian rule over a disease our CDC claims is no worse than the flu.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.htmlhttps://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

Here's a synthesis of many COVID IFR estimates (including the CDC which you fail to interpret correctly) compared with flu death rates in the US.

"Just the flu" = I can't do basic math

https://twitter.com/zorinaq/status/1311764842160644096?s=20

Ya know... screw everyone else. If the vaccine keeps me from getting sick I don't care about the rest of you.

AS someone who was around for the swine flu vaccine. I took it. Didn't get sick.

And if you don't think that science hasn't advanced since the 70's, I have some yummy Trump Steaks to sell you?

Sally Vicks wrote:

1/2 of what you stated wrote:

If we all do the economy is fvcked for a very long time.

Please note: A poster brought up small box vaccine. I agree small box vaccine is a net good.

You ignored O.P. a poster who brought up 1976 rushed massive vaccine program.

U.S. economy is more diverse than massage parlors, tattoo shops, strip clubs and dive bars. Media continue to interview owners of coffee shops and saloons as if they are 100% of U.S. economy.

I’m not ignoring it, I just don’t think a bad vaccine that was created before I was born, 45 years ago means we’re destined for the same today with ALL potential vaccines.[/quote

Ok, look up the H1N1 vax that hot pulled. Do you know anyone that went to vaccine court? Why do you think vaccine court settles suits for hundreds of millions? Why after settling is a gag order placed on you? Do you know the history of the HIV vaccine? BTW, they snuck the H1N1 vax in the seasonal flu shot. The science is real. Fake immunity comes with a price. As with everything in life, nothing comes for free.

flying squirrel wrote:

Fake immunity comes with a price. As with everything in life, nothing comes for free.

Rofl yeah a real unbiased thinker here.

I am pro vaccine. I've taken the flu shot for years and will take this one also (possibly at the end of next month as I am in health care and work in several hospitals). Vaccines are one of the greatest discoveries in the history of man. But hey, it's your body, so your choice. Most of the people I've talked with are going to take it. 3 or 4 that aren't taking it because they think it's novel and we don't know the long term effects. Then there's my crazy liberal aunt who is refusing to take it because of something, something Trump. Oh well.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Sally Vicks wrote:

For those who oppose restrictions and won’t take the vaccine what’s your end goal?

As far as I know we aren’t seeing herd immunity.

So you want to leave everything open but also not take a vaccine.

How does this play out if we all followed your advice?

Genuine question.

I don’t see why I can’t personally have it both ways. At least half the population will get antibodies through the vaccine. A**holes like me, who didn’t change their life at all (going to work, going to bars, restaurants, weddings, etc) will just get the antibodies through constant exposure to virus and thus won’t need the vaccine.

Fixed the bolded part for you.

Wonder just how many people you've infected by not changing your life at all. Selfish nitwits like you have been a massive part of why we have not been able to knock this down to date. smh

"constant exposure to the virus" Read: 1-5% chance (maybe more given the strong boomer vibes) of serious complications.

failed humans wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

I don’t see why I can’t personally have it both ways. At least half the population will get antibodies through the vaccine. A**holes like me, who didn’t change their life at all (going to work, going to bars, restaurants, weddings, etc) will just get the antibodies through constant exposure to virus and thus won’t need the vaccine.

Fixed the bolded part for you.

Wonder just how many people you've infected by not changing your life at all. Selfish nitwits like you have been a massive part of why we have not been able to knock this down to date. smh

I don’t get why we’re fighting over this? It sounds like both sides can get their way. There will be plenty of people (the majority I imagine) who will want to get the vaccine- people will be literally fighting over it at first.

The minority of people who don’t get the vaccine will a) catch virus and die (their fault) or b) (more likely) they build COVID-19 antibodies the natural way by constantly being exposed to virus.

Together, we will reach herd immunity and the virus slowly goes away, probably by the end of 2021.

You don't build antibodies/secondary immune response by "being constantly exposed." This occurs when you get infected with sufficient burden/immune stimulation to trigger the adaptive response that allows lasting secondary antibody (B cell) and T cell responses. This is the identical process through which vaccines confer immunity - only with a vaccine there is no chance of viral replication/severe infection. There is a very small chance of an immune response to the vaccine that has severe side effects but you see a greater risk of THE SAME severe immune response to the virus itself. After all, the immunogenic components of the vaccine are all present in the virus itself! So there is nothing "safer" about acquiring immunity "naturally."

be friends agsin wrote:

I don’t get why we’re fighting over this? It sounds like both sides can get their way. There will be plenty of people (the majority I imagine) who will want to get the vaccine- people will be literally fighting over it at first.

The minority of people who don’t get the vaccine will a) catch virus and die (their fault) or b) (more likely) they build COVID-19 antibodies the natural way by constantly being exposed to virus.

Together, we will reach herd immunity and the virus slowly goes away, probably by the end of 2021.

Sheesh, you need to stop being a bigoted dick and lumping while groups of people together as having the same opinon! Sheesh!

I’m not saying that getting the vaccine wouldn’t be a better option than trying to get it naturally- I’ll get the vaccine. I’m saying we don’t need to try to force the vaccine down everyone’s throat. The majority of the population will choose to get the vaccine & the other part of the population will catch COVID and either a) deal with the consequences or b) eventually build the antibodies the way the people did pre-vaccines. We really don’t need to try to control each other on this issue.

Harambe wrote:

Sally Vicks wrote:

Please stop with this foolishness. A reasonable person does not bother comparing Sweden to well populated nations. Sweden only has two cities larger than 500,000 in population. Sweden is a collection of small towns. Comparing Sweden to U.S. is similar to comparing Montana to state of New York.

Let’s say you’re correct for a moment.

They’ve still failed to save their economy and failed to reach herd immunity.

If most people refuse to get a vaccine then we’re stuck - the economy will continue to suffer.

Also they're wrong. They just don't understand how Sweden reports deaths:

https://adamaltmejd.se/covid/

Lead Foil Hat II wrote:

Sheesh, you need to stop being a bigoted dick and lumping while groups of people together as having the same opinon! Sheesh!

COVID deniers can all be lumped together into the same "low-IQ and unaware of it" group!

Lead Foil Hat II wrote:

Sally Vicks wrote:

It’s not working out that way in Sweden.

Many people beg to differ on Sweden; compared to most of Europe they are not doing so bad. I think a vaccine is important, but it is most important for the elderly and immune compromised to get. Everyone else will build immunity through exposure and be fine. The economy will only tank if they shut things down again....the virus will not tank the economy on its own....that is a farce.

We are discussing herd immunity in Sweden.

As for the economy, Sweden’s tanked even without lockdowns.

panicheads behind the wheel wrote:

Sally Vicks wrote:

Let’s say you’re correct for a moment.

They’ve still failed to save their economy and failed to reach herd immunity.

If most people refuse to get a vaccine then we’re stuck - the economy will continue to suffer.

The big picture is that peoples' freedom is safeguarded. Sweden's economy is tied to the global economy which will ebb and flow. More importantly, is people trusting the government to not impose authoritarian rule over a disease our CDC claims is no worse than the flu.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.htmlhttps://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

“Government, impose, authoritarian rule, freedom”

I never said anything about that, I’m talking about a solution to open up the economy.

For profit pharmaceutical companies are producing and offering the vaccines. If we followed the anti-vaxers and anti-mask sound bytes we don’t have a viable solution.