Mr. Renato Canova: Can you answer some questions about training?

I would also like to hear from Renato. I wonder why he gave Cherono only 50% to win when he SPANKED the Helsinki field AND the Zurich field even after falling badly. Renato, where are you?

Maybe he's in Monaco? Would love to see those training outlines if has them.

Renato, I see you. I know you've reading. How about talking training?

I can satisfy your curiosity. It's not pre-tactic, really I was not tranquil, because in July we had a lot of problems. The situation in Kenya was very bad : every day it rained, and the roads (and tracks) were muddy. So, we used (with Shaheen but also with Dorcus Inzikuru) only 2 sessions on track in one month. Running on the mud, I had some athlete injured (Shaheen himself had to stop for one week every type of training, and fortunately we had in Iten the physio of Qatar and a new machine, called TECAR, that allowed him to be able running after 8 hours per day of therapy without any type of activity : but this happened from 20 to 26 of July !), like Nicholas Kemboi with a muscle elongation, or Jamal Salem with a problem in a knee.

So, our training was : at 5:00 am I take the car, and go with my athletes around in Rift Valley, seeking a road not very muddy. At 6:00 or later we finally find something better : may be that is 300m climbing, so today training is 20 times 300m climbing, at 80% of speed, with 2:00 recovery. Tomorrow may be the same situation, and I go for only 10 times 300m at 95% with 4:00 recovery. And after 3 days, I go for 30 times 300m at 70% with recovery running back in 1:30. And may be that after 5 days I go for speed running 10 times 300m downhill. Finally, today doesn't rain, and I have to chose between long fast run (it's the first day that the roads are dry) or a good session on track. But this depends on what we did yesterday.

I like to have the full control on ALL training. In July, I had to improvise every day, using imagination more than methodology.

This was the reason because I was afraid. What happened after WCh, is another story. The shape of Shaheen raised a lot : 3 days after winning in Helsinki, he, alone, run on the track for training, in the early morning, 2000m in 5:00.2, 1600m in 4:01, 1200m in 2:58.6 and 800m in 1:55.3, with 5:00 recovery. Between Zurich and Bruxelles, in St. Moritz, he ran 8 x 600m, opening recovery time, in this way : (1) 1:31.3 (rec. 1:00) + (2) 1:28.8 (rec. 2:00) + (3) 1:26.6 (rec. 3:00) + (4) 1:24.7 (rec. 4:00) + (5) 1:23.0 (rec. 5:00) + (6) 1:21.8 (rec. 6:00) + (7) 1:20.9 (rec. 7:00) + 1:19.8. This is the reason because I think that next year he can run under 3:30. The problem in Zurich was the weather (rain and a very strong wind), in any case without the fall his time could be 7:55. In Bruxelles, the very bad work of rabbits (he had to run completely alone for 1500m).

Why the idea is to reduce the no. of competitions in steeple ? Because he needs motivation, not stress. Now, Stephen killed the event. All the other athletes are worse than 2 years ago. He won a lot of races with 100m of gap. So, to win is not enough. When there is a race, everybody (organizers, press, and normal people) talk about "Attempt of new WR", and this is a stress, not a motivation. This year, nobody was able to run 2000m at the speed that he needs for bettering his WR.

Same thing for Dorcus, but for her I hope that Samitova can come back in short time. She needs some athlete running in 9:00, because was already able running under 9:10 this year, and can run very close 9:00 already next year.

Anyway, next year I try to put another athlete under 8:00 : his name is Jamal Bilal Salem, he trains with Stephen and can be the only one pacing him till 2200m at 7:50 pace. Already this year Salem ran 7:30 in flat distance, but next year can be a protagonist in steeple.

And follow a young Kenyan, that was no. 3 in Youth Championships. His name is Besluke Kiplagat, he's 17 years old. I think that next year can run close 8:05, winning WJCh.

Renato, why do you only train extremely talented runners? If you coached in the US, a lot of people could improve to the world level.

thanks for the information.

It would not be possible to train runners so well in the U.S.

Renato,

I would firstly like to thank you for the tremendous information you so generously post here. I look for your posts regularly.

Secondly, I would like some advice. I am a 800m/1500m runner with 1:50/3:49 PRs. I remember the advice you gave to the Mexican 800m/1500m man (1:48/3:39 from memory, which was based on your observation that his "SPECIFIC TALENT was in not in the direction of a high lactic endurance, but rather medium lactic endurance supported by good aerobic support." I can clearly see the logic for the advice you gave.

Now what if an athlete, like myself, has the following characteristics:

400M PR: 49.7

800m PR: 1:50.3

1500m PR: 3:49.48

3000M PR: 8:28.1

- Struggle with long reps and high volume

- lactate threshold: 3:23km/17.8km/hr

- very fast over 60-100m, and struggles to maintain speed.

- has characteristically very high lactate values for even moderately paced work: i.e. 5km reps, for example 5 x 1km at 3:00 = Bla of 7.5-8mmol. At 800m aerobic support, i.e 4 x 600m at 1:31, 4min rec, Bla at 12-13mmol.

I would like to know what direction, based on this info, you might think my "SPECFIC TALENT" might be in? And a suggested approach to draw the best from this talent.

800mQuestions wrote:

400M PR: 49.7

800m PR: 1:50.3

1500m PR: 3:49.48

3000M PR: 8:28.1

I would like to know what direction, based on this info, you might think my "SPECFIC TALENT" might be in? And a suggested approach to draw the best from this talent.

800m, bud. Keep cutting time off the 400, and if you can bring it down to 48-high and also raise your lactate threshold running velocity to 20 km/hr, you'll see 1:47. You fall off badly after 800. If you enjoy the longer distances, consider that Gebrselassie's 400m PR is 49.97 seconds. If you can stand years and years of aerobic work, you could be good there too.

I too share the training profile of '800mQuestions', so am intrigued to hear Renato's response here.

How do you train an 800m runner with a poor lactate threshold and good lactate capacity and lactate power? I recall Renato saying elsewhere that he prefers to develop the AnT of 800m metre runners, through AEROBIC POWER work rather than undertaking 'fast tests' with high lacte levels.

How do you get around the fact the athletes with a poor AnT struggle with AEROBIC POWER work, in that their poor AnT causes them to develop a lot of lactate in doing such work? The problem seems cyclical to me: the effects of the remedy seem to go against the purpose for which the remedy (devel of AnT) was designed to achieve. Or do we just go for the conventional 'most adaptation for less stress tradeoff' approach adopted by someone like Bakken, in training just under the conventional AnT of 4.0mmol?

Interested.

what is aerobic power?

I intend to take nothing away from Renato, but, rather, add to the discussion.

This is my opinion on how to overcome the difficult situation mentioned:

High lactate values, in and of themselves, are not bad.

What is bad is the quick buildup of acidosis at modest speeds. Thus, using longer reps and distance runs at 85-90% effort plus long hills will bring about lactate clearance at faster paces (stamina development). The problem is every time you go out and "hammer" some fast short to medium reps with short rest breaks you build up high acidosis and you reduce your aerobic stamina. Thus, you have to return to stamina training again right away. Training must be in balance. If you have endurance, stamina, strength or strength endurance, and speed or speed endurance to run your best races.

I think that 800m runers need to do 3-4 minute reps at a pace they could run in a 3k race and 5-6 minute reps at a pace they can run for 5km in a race. Also, doing fast progressive distance runs over rolling hills provides stamina enhancement. Always, I suggest doing 60-120m reps at a quick but not strained speed after either longer reps or fast distance runs. NO sense in losing your innate speed! Additionally, short hill reps can be done after fast distance runs and provide a framework for enhancing muscular power without building up acidosis.

IN SUMMARY:

Including 300-600m faster reps is important for 800m runners, but if longer reps at slightly slower paces and longer fast continuous distance runs (tempos) are not included, a runner will not reach their personal potential. There must be a harmony in training. Good luck! Tinman

Tinman, please always post. You only add to the discussion.

Mr. Canova is the point of opening the recovery for lactate fall and ATP regeneration with a much increased speed? More work done without duress and using speed-endurance in the direction of fatigue?

I tend to use repetition training more than interval training. What's the difference? Rep training focuses on getting the result from the rep, not the limited recovery. For example, instead of running speed-endurance reps such as 5 x 600m at a fast pace with 1-2 minutes recovery, I let the runner jog 400m in however long they need in order to be ready for the next rep. Some may take 2:30 and others may take 4 minutes to recover before hitting the next 600m fast rep. I want them to run fast enough in the 600s in order to stimulate power output. I may just give them 4 minutes of walk-jog-walk recovery between reps as a standard (in which case I am scheduling interval-rep training).

I will give you an example of how not limiting the rest makes a difference. I coached sprinters at a university who had plenty of experience with different coaches. The first year I coached a group of sprinters I changed what they had done in training. They were accustome to doing workouts like 8-12 x 200m fairly fast with 30-45 seconds rest (supposedly to improve lactic tolerance) or 6 x 400m as hard as they could go with a 1-1.5 minute recovery. They were hurt often, and ranged in 400m times from 51 high to 56 seconds. The average being 53 high. I gave them just two weekly rep workouts, plus their weekend race. The Monday rep workouts were 1000m worth of short reps with joggin the same distance, walking the same distance before doing the next rep. So, they might run 10 x 100m at about 80-85% effort, jog 100m, then walk 100m. The total rest was about 3 mintues, I would guess, between 100s. On Wednesdays, they did 300-600m reps at 80-85% effort, totalling about 1600m. They jogged and walked 4 times as long as the rep took them, perhaps longer. So, if it took James 1 minute to do his 400m reps, then he jogged and walked at least 4 minutes between each rep. This was radically less rest than they had been doing and fewer reps. Also, they weren't running as many hard days per week.

Result? 7 of 7 runners in the group ran more than 3 seconds less per 400m than the previous years. The top 4 ran 49.5, 49.7, 50.8, and 51.8 in the last meet of the season. They had lifetime bests of 51 and change (in high school three years earlier), 52 and change (in high school three years earlier), 54 and change (the previous year), and 56 (4 years earlier in high school). What was the true sign that the training was right? Their 400m, 200,and even 100m times were better, they did not have injuries (a first for some of them) and they had positive attitudes about training and competing. They ran to the death, so to speak, and loved what they were doing. Can we discount the feelings of enthusiasm as any less sign that training is right?

In summary, if rest is limited, then power is too. If you want to increase power outuput, then you need to use longer recoveries, and then you can run faster during your reps. If you want to enhance endurance, do it in other ways other than taking short recoveries between your speed reps. Do some distance runs, tempo running, long reps at modest speeds, and long hills. Separate the two main types of training, and then you can maximize the results of each. Coach T.

I want to explain again the base of my phylosophy.

a) We have 2 different engines : mechanical (muscles) and bioenergetic. Our mechanical engine is the structure of the car, bioenergetic, that regards the internal systems (cardiovascular apparatus, enzymatic system, etc), is the engine of the car. So, like in a formula 1, we have to develop both engine and structure in well balances way. If we have a very strong bioenergetic engine, but our structure is not strong enough, we cannot use PRACTICALLY our metabolic quality, because we are not able running fast enough. At the same time, if we have a very powerful structure (for example, a thrower) not supported by the organic engine, we cannot last at high speed for the total duration of the race.

b) In the GENERAL PERIOD, we must work for increasing our qualities, with separate goals. During this period, we must train both our lacks and our talented qualities, in order to reduce the first one and to enhance the second.

So, we must carry out specific training for increasing strength, general resistance, ability, frequency, cohordination, flexibility, etc, WITHOUT ASSEMBLING THESE QUALITIES in combined way.

We need to increase strength, in order to become faster during the competition season ? We use light weights (if we have), short sprints uphill, exercises for muscle strength.

We need to increase general resistance, in order to build a better base for developing specific endurance ? We go for long run, increasing for 4-5 years both duration and speed, without going in very fast execution.

We need to increase local resistance, in order to build a better base for developing lactic capacity ? We go for circuits with different stations, carried out at high intensity, using gym and not specific exercises.

c) In the FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD, we put in our training some SPECIAL type of training. Special is a training that is not fully connected with the event, but is propaedeutic for the SPECIFIC event. For example, for a runner of 800m, 3 x 600m at 98% of speed (for an athlete having 1:50, we can suppose a passage in 1:22.0 = 13.7 every 100m. So, 98% of this time is (13.7 + 0.3)= 14.0, meaning 1:24.0 in 600m) with 6/8 min recovery, is SPECIFIC, 10 x 600m at 90% = 1:30.0 with 3 min recovery in SPECIAL, 15 x 600m at 75% = 1:42.0 with 1:30 min is FUNDAMENTAL, 12 km at 3:45 pK is GENERAL

d) In the SPECIAL PERIOD, we increase the intensity of everything, preparing our body for SPECIFIC TRAINING, that we have to carry out at intensity of 100-105% related to the speed of the race.

e) In any project of training, we never can lose what already we have. So, staying too long time without training some quality is ALWAYS a mistake. Today, it's not possible to apply Lydiard system, because the athletes have to compete frequently. If in 1960, without indoor activity, Peter Snell or Herb Elliot had a long period only for training without competing (the duration of summer season was very short), and they could use 3 months only for long run building a big aerobic base, now we must modulate our training in different way. An athlete ending the season with 1:45 in September, in December must be able running in 1:47, not in 1:52, and this means that he has to continue to train speed (climbing) and dynamic qualities ALSO when the main goal is to develop AEROBIC RESISTANCE.

d) If an athlete is able to reach a level of 20 mml, during winter ALWAYS must be able to reach 18, not only 12. Remember that too much training in slow run can develop the enzyme SDH, that face the enzymes LDH and CPK. So, we must always to use some training for maintaining at high level our ability in producing LDH and CPH.

e) But, if an athlete has an AnT of 16 km/h, he must use the GENERAL PERIOD for raising to 17 or 18. So, he has in any case to increase volume and speed of his long run.

f) When you go to the competition season, you have to maintain the basic training, changing the percentages of every type of work. You must remember that, if we go for something SPECIFIC, we produce a lot of lactate. Our problem is the ACCUMULATION of lactate in our fibres, not the high level. For example, if you are able to reach a level of 20 mmol running 400m in 48, and also 20mmol running 800m in 1:48, the quantity of lactate in your fibres is not the same. So, for removing the lactate produced in 400m, reaching a level of 6 mmol, you can spend 2 hours, for removing the lactate produced in 800m you need one day (these are examples, don't think that this numbers are the same for everybody).

g) In order to aid a quick removal of lactate, your level of AEROBIC POWER (AnT) is fundamental. Athletes with a high AnT are able to remove their lactate quicker than athletes with low AnT.

h) In order to develop your max. specific quality, you must be FRESH in your mind and your muscles. When you work for increasing your ability in ACCUMULATING you can be tired, but this can happen only in General and Fundamental period. When you qork for increasing your ability in PRODUCING you must be Fresh, this happens during SPECIAL and SPECIFIC PERIOD. Therefore, athletes can have care in recovering before going for a training of high quality. When you go in SPECIFIC season, you use more intensity (and remember that the intensity in middle and long distance is a specifism of EXTENSION AT THE SPEED OF THE RACE), consequently you must use more recover.

COMPETITIONS ARE THE HIGHEST QUALITY TRAINING.

i) When you use max intensity, you empty your nervous tank, so before the next workout in the same direction you need to fill it again. MEDIUM INTENSITY TRAINING is the key for filling your tank after a high intensity training or a competition.

Tinman, if I use some term not correct, please help me explaining in a good English what I wrote.

Renato:

You did well. English is not your primary language, so mistakes will be made, but we can understand your message; which is what really counts! This is not an academic class and you should be allowed to write freely and without pause.

Our message to runners appears to be similar. One must have endurance and speed all year long, but the degree or amount of each can vary a bit. It is true the we live in a different era, and there is a need to be closer to peak fitness all year long. I estimate that a runner needs to be 5%, no more, from their peak fitness during the general preparatory phase of training. So, if a 3:30 1500m runner intending to peak in August, then he must still be able to run 3:40.5 in the winter during general prep conditioning. A 12:50 5,000m runner must be able to run no slower than 13:28.5 in the winter during general prep conditioning.

It is misunderstood what the purpose of off-season (general prep) (base) conditioning is for. Sure, elevating endurance is important, but the primary reason is to help track runners in two key ways. First, it is important to raise the aerobic cruising speed so that acidosis occurs at a faster pace. An 800m runner can have 45 second 400m speed but still not be able to run 1:44 for 400m if their aerobic cruising speed is too low. Second, there is great benefit from doing specialized training (race specific training) when aerobic capacity is well developed. A runner with high aerobic capacity can do more quality reps than one who has a low aerobic capacity. Also, a runner with high aerobic capacity can benefit more from the specialized training because they regenerate to equilibrium more quicly (this is what you said, so to speak). This was the tenet of Lydiard, also.

A good way of thinking about training is to imagine a staircase with stairsteps taking you up to the top of where the best view, the best of life, is waiting for you with open arms. If you build more stairsteps, you don't have to build each one so high or so steep in elevation. More steps wastes less energy and ensures that you get to the top without being too tired. That is what training for championships events is all about. Getting to the top fit, fast, and ready to race well.

Good endurance allows you to build stamina. Good stamina allows you to build aerobic strength, good aerobic strength allows you to build aerobic power, good aerobic power allows you to build anaerobic stamina. Good anaerobic stamina allows you to build good anaerobic power. Good anaeorbic power allows you to develop good speed, sustainable speed. All these qualities depend upon structural integrity. If your muscles lack tensibility, then you can't generate force and you can survive the beating your tendowns and ligaments take when you do high volume, high speed training as you prepare for the big track competitions.

A key to scheduling is to understand the concept of integrated training. Mixing workouts together in the right amounts, the right speeds, and the right time of the year optimizes performance at the championship competitions. I believe that one must have two well developed steps below on the staircase if one wants to maximize the development of a current skill needed. For example, if you want to now develop your aerobic power (97-100% of VO2 max), then you must first and foremost have developed your aeorbic strength (91-96% of Max VO2) and aerobic stamina (81-90% of VO2 max). You must continue to use 81-96% of VO2 max type training as you work on developing your aerobic power in the 97-100% range.

If you want to develop your anaerobic stamina (1500-800m pace), now, then you must first have both your aerobic power and aerobic strength below it on the staircase solidly developed. You must at least maintain your aerobic power and aerobic strength as you develop your anaerobic stamina.

If you want to develop anaeorbic power (what you would use for the 200-400m, then you need to have your anaerobic stamina and aerobic power well developed in order to have the best possible results. Without both, benfits of training are less than optimal.

All the time, you must use the low end of the scale (aerobic endurance) to support and maintain the foundation for developing the higher end of the scale. Ignoring the low end for more than a couple of weeks will typically cause bad results in competitions, I posit.

Coach T.

So Tinman how do you apply this theory to half marathon training? I understand the terms well but not sure how it would apply to this distance. Is it a case of AnT being improved in the fundemetal period then training specific pace during the special period?.

Hi Renato, Tinman, and anybody else, thank you for your training input! I'd love to have Renato compile all this into a book, a new one, with a lot of information and a huge length! :)

god !!! reading this thread and others like it gives me a sore head. running is a simple act which involves putting one foot in front of the other at various speeds. in those posts by renato and tinman i have never seen so much jargon in all my life. STOP TRYING TO COMPLICATE RUNNING !!!!!!! just get the bloody hard graft done !!!