LeBron is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME

This thread has finally inspired me to start watching The Last Dance (which I'll do shortly). Growing up watching MJ as a Lakers then (very late 80's to now) Celtics fan, and watching LeBron over the last few decades, there is no contest - Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron takes too many plays off, sulks a ton (leaving the court early in Game 3 was unacceptable - no, MJ left the court with .5s left because he was ejected), flops like a dying fish, and isn't as tenacious of a defender as MJ (one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time). There's a reason why Lebron wears the GOAT's number on his jersey.

Really liked his acting in Trainwreck, though (for what it was).

your parents wrote:

Jordan without Jackson as Head Coach:

7 seasons

1 MVP

0 rings

5 seasons with a losing record

Jackson without Jordan:

12 seasons

5 rings

0 seasons with a losing record

Jordan was 193 - 187 (.508) without Pippen in his career.

Jordan was 1-9 (.111) without Pippen in the playoffs (when he made them).

Yeah. Can't understand how Jordan was not able to beat the Celtics and Pistons with multiple HOFs all by himself. :)

How about actually leading them to a winning record so that they weren't playing the Celtics in the first round?

Good player. One of the best all-time. But not the best.

Anyone who has watched basketball over the past 40 years, should be "The Eye Test" know that Jordan was a better all around player, than James. It's an opinion, but objectively measuring scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, performance in big games, clutch ability and the overall intangibles.

The Eye Test is best because if someone uses stats, MVPs, Championships, or other criteria, Russell, Wilt, Jabbar and others are better. Jordan could've played in the NBA at 18 just like James and Bryant could have. Magic and Isiah did at 20 and were outstanding immediately. James and Bryant's numbers are padded going straight to the NBA.

Wilt was probably the most dominant player ever and would likely be considered the best player ever but from what I've read, he didn't care about winning like Russell did.

If there was a time machine to pick all the players from NBA history at age 21 and you have the First Pick - would anyone choose James over all the other players???

Jordan never wilted under the pressure (they came so close to beating Detroit in game 7 of their repeat title run when Pippen got hurt) and never took plays off on defense (which James has done the past 5+ years) and didn't shy away from the big shot like James has done over his career.

Magic, from age 20-30, or Bird, from age 23-33, are in the conversation with Jordan, MJ and Bryant and Curry (pre 1980 is speculation having not watched Russell, Wilt and others over the course of a season and the playoffs for The Eye Test.

Old School Power Forwards and Centers, in my opinion, are best to be compared separately.

Since 1980, the start 5 All Time greats are:

PG - Magic

SG - Jordan

SF - Bird

PF - Duncan

C - Olajuwon

Off the Bench:

PG - Curry

SG - Bryant

SF - James

PF - Malone

C - O'Neal

cool opinion, bro. super long, but cool nonetheless.

billymills1964 wrote:

Jordan never wilted under the pressure (they came so close to beating Detroit in game 7 of their repeat title run when Pippen got hurt) and never took plays off on defense (which James has done the past 5+ years) and didn't shy away from the big shot like James has done over his career.

Jordan literally took YEARS of plays off altogether, gtfoh.

Bc the Bulls when they drafted Jordan were horrible and building teams took time. Thomas joined the Pistons in 1981 but didnt win his first title until the 88/89 season. It took the Pistons a few tries to break through the Celtics and then for the Bulls to get by Detroit. Jordan took his team to the playoffs and two ECFs before getting to the title.

On this subject LBJ entered the league in 2003 and did not win a title under 2010 with Miami.

astro wrote:

On this subject LBJ entered the league in 2003 and did not win a title under 2010 with Miami.

Pretty sure the LBJ has only had one season with a losing record when he was healthy, and it was when he was 19.

astro wrote:

Bc the Bulls when they drafted Jordan were horrible and building teams took time. Thomas joined the Pistons in 1981 but didnt win his first title until the 88/89 season. It took the Pistons a few tries to break through the Celtics and then for the Bulls to get by Detroit. Jordan took his team to the playoffs and two ECFs before getting to the title.

That's exactly the point. MJ was great but couldn't win a championship by himself. Lebron was/is great but couldn't win a championship by himself. He could drag a terrible Cleveland team to 67 wins in the regular season, but couldn't win championships until he got a supporting superstar (just like Jordan).

astro wrote:

Yeah. Can't understand how Jordan was not able to beat the Celtics and Pistons with multiple HOFs all by himself. :)

LeBron took this starting 5 to the NBA Finals:

Lebron

Drew Gooden

Sasha Pavlovic

Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Daniel Gibson/Larry Hughes

Did he beat the Celtics with Bird, Parish, McHale, DJ, Ainge and Walton?

The East in the 2000s was not great. Detroit had a decent run, but you had years where the 76er, the Nets, the Heat were making it. Wade even won it.

astro wrote:

Yeah. Can't understand how Jordan was not able to beat the Celtics and Pistons with multiple HOFs all by himself. :)

Exactly. But the narrative of these conversations typically goes something like this.

"Jordan was this unstoppable force that would not, could not, tolerate losing to anyone at anytime, whether it was the NBA finals, practice, gambling, or golf. By sheer ruthlessness and indominable force of will he propelled himself and the Bulls to a glorious and perfect 6-0 in the finals because, of course, he wasn't capable of anything other than winning. This essential feature is what defines basketball greatness and it's obvious that Lebron doesn't have this because he lost more finals than he won."

The truth is that he lost when he was on sh*tty teams and didn't come close to the finals. The Bulls built a winner around him and ripped off a string of championships, because they were clearly the best TEAM (with the best player) in the 90s.

I give Jordan credit for sticking with the Bulls while they built a winner. At the same time, I don't blame Lebron for suffering through 7 tough seasons with the Cavs before taking matters into his own hands to build a winner.

astro wrote:

Did he beat the Celtics with Bird, Parish, McHale, DJ, Ainge and Walton?

The East in the 2000s was not great. Detroit had a decent run, but you had years where the 76er, the Nets, the Heat were making it. Wade even won it.

There’s a wide difference between taking that garbage Cavs team to the Finals that Lebron did vs having a losing record and getting bounced in the first round with a crappy Bulls team. A wide, wide difference.

astro wrote:

Did he beat the Celtics with Bird, Parish, McHale, DJ, Ainge and Walton?

The East in the 2000s was not great. Detroit had a decent run, but you had years where the 76er, the Nets, the Heat were making it. Wade even won it.

Are you talking about the Chicago Bulls team that made the playoffs with a 30-52 record?

BWS wrote:

astro wrote:

Did he beat the Celtics with Bird, Parish, McHale, DJ, Ainge and Walton?

The East in the 2000s was not great. Detroit had a decent run, but you had years where the 76er, the Nets, the Heat were making it. Wade even won it.

Are you talking about the Chicago Bulls team that made the playoffs with a 30-52 record?

Having recently recovered from a broken foot,

"God disguised as Michael Jordan" couldn't lift his young team past the Celrics.

your parents wrote:

Jordan without Jackson as Head Coach:

7 seasons

1 MVP

0 rings

5 seasons with a losing record

Jackson without Jordan:

12 seasons

5 rings

0 seasons with a losing record

This is really impressive considering Jackson was working with a bunch of scrubs after he was done coaching Jordan.