Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

"You are of course wrong! And don`t call me crazy after have coached 13 winners of international races in just 5 years coaching time. I assure you not many coaches have done the same in history."

I know those are lies. I saw all the evidence I needed to on the other thread.

It's not ok to be called crazy but you call us stupid when you lie about your exploits.

It's not ok to be called stupid.

hhjhdhx wrote:

J.S. ... you CRAZY.

+1

I have never called anyone here at LRC to be stupid! Don`t come here with your false accusations!

That you guys would be stupid was your own words, not mine!

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Your math was off.

I'll be interested to see how your latest project turns out. 15-20x400m his first week back was moronic.

It was not a first running week after injury, but second one, why was it moronic?

A marathon runner of the 02:20:00 level trains on average 12-14 hours a week, then why the hell can I expect the same result if I train 7 hours a week only? I feel like I'm just wasting my precious time, and as the years go by, my muscles don't grow that fast anymore... I am not satisfied with this prospect.... ?

The Wizard JS wrote:

BOHlCA wrote:

"You are of course wrong! And don`t call me crazy after have coached 13 winners of international races in just 5 years coaching time. I assure you not many coaches have done the same in history."

I know those are lies. I saw all the evidence I needed to on the other thread.

It's not ok to be called crazy but you call us stupid when you lie about your exploits.

It's not ok to be called stupid.

I have never called anyone here at LRC to be stupid! Don`t come here with your false accusations!

That you guys would be stupid was your own words, not mine!

It's called an analogy. And she is right.

By lying to us you call us stupid.

I don't like to be called stupid by an incompetent Swedish coach.

Canefis wrote:

A marathon runner of the 02:20:00 level trains on average 12-14 hours a week, then why the hell can I expect the same result if I train 7 hours a week only? I feel like I'm just wasting my precious time, and as the years go by, my muscles don't grow that fast anymore... I am not satisfied with this prospect.... ?

That marathon runner didn't start running 12-14 hours a week in their first year of training.

My opinion is that you are doing too much too soon because of that 2:20 and the silly promises of magic results from JS.

I mean, the crazy man even talks about you beating the Russian record!

For 4month theoretically increased vdot by 1-1.5 point, what the hell? I could do just easy jogging 8h+ cycling 16h and get same better results without any workout.

Allright, if after 2 months will be same tendency, I will stop all bulls@t, start gradually increase volume until desired 12h at least. Why should we believe that we are smarter than thousand runners and coaches if we don't use their experience??

....To be a workout hero you don't need a lot of intelligence...

ImpaIa31 wrote:

Canefis wrote:

A marathon runner of the 02:20:00 level trains on average 12-14 hours a week, then why the hell can I expect the same result if I train 7 hours a week only? I feel like I'm just wasting my precious time, and as the years go by, my muscles don't grow that fast anymore... I am not satisfied with this prospect.... ?

That marathon runner didn't start running 12-14 hours a week in their first year of training.

My opinion is that you are doing too much too soon because of that 2:20 and the silly promises of magic results from JS.

I mean, the crazy man even talks about you beating the Russian record!

Exactly! Nobody start with 12-14 immediately, absolutely agree.

My avg weekly running is 7-9h which I can handle with 2 workouts, so gradually to build 12h without workouts is very possible for me withing few months.

You know, how many hours I hold cycling during my road bike time at base period? - 20-30h++ every week 3-4 months in a row, almost like a pro and then to add 2month hills training, 1m speed, 2weeks and so on...

Ok, running is much harder load to your bones, joints, etc,

At each competition same rule: no have 3000km in legs, forget about any kind of speed workouts, no have in legs 5000h forget about racing and so on... same in running with less volume...

What is a point to build muscles if my aerobic base only vdot=64+-1, when need 72+-1, it is 8x60=+-500h of total running volume, it is minimum, 500h hours ???, because due to adaptation, injury, sickness in the future you need much more!

OK, divide it by avg weekly hours and you will get clear picture.... that you are a total s@cker... go and build base.... as you did not run at age 13 y.old like other runners.

I like, how changed in a good way "highhoppingworm"

He himself said that he did a lot of all sorts of workouts at high speed, and then once and realized that the base is still not enough and began to bomb the volumes from this year as it should be for all decent runners, bravo! ???? Then he will get used to the volumes in 3-4 months, start layering the workouts on top and by the end of this year I am absolutely sure that he will add a lot to the results.

The guy said that he does not have good talent, I do not believe in talent, only smart work (use experience of other runners) and desire, this is all you need.

Canefis wrote:

....To be a workout hero you don't need a lot of intelligence...

Are you replying and talking to yourself? I'm really confused reading these posts.

"Highhoppingworm" said that he cannot do 20x400 like me, I can do, and so f@cking what?? ?He can run 5K sub 16 easily, me sub 16?? Um, impossible... what is a point to be a workout hero? I always criticized people here who tried to predict something from a workout and become a workout hero and forgot for what they are training for.

Do you know, thst you can s@ck at each workout during training? but be a good consistent racer or TT with gradually improved results every step, because your system will give you correct results and your developing is going "normally". I've seen many like this in cycling too. One guy: every training faster, sharper, all hills is a king, another guy all training days like a s@cker... when coming race, guess who is the s@cker now?? our workout hero is a s@cker....

Canefis wrote:

For 4month theoretically increased vdot by 1-1.5 point, what the hell? I could do just easy jogging 8h+ cycling 16h and get same better results without any workout.

Allright, if after 2 months will be same tendency, I will stop all bulls@t, start gradually increase volume until desired 12h at least. Why should we believe that we are smarter than thousand runners and coaches if we don't use their experience??

Theoretically this, theoretically that.

Just go out, run a 10k without all mambo jambo, this wil be your as I like to call it “zero point” or checkpoint, and there you have it. Nothing more, nothing less. And finish what you have started with Wizard for “real” comparison (otherwise you will never know what.)

He will “hunt you down” with the words, if you just followed MY dancan, you would have run sub 2:15 by now if you “back off right now”

Or a 3k to compare your 9:25 with. Wizard will claim it’s because of dancan, I’ll give you credit for your work you put up in it.

Why I say that 7-9 hours is not enough for the level of VDOT=72, because I can see how my cardiovascular system reacts. After the injury, I decided to specifically experiment with the volume, added an unmeasured number of hours on the bike in parallel to running and, ... voila, the morning pulse in a week 43, in running the pulse on easy run immediately went down. And if I didn't pedal at all after the injury, what would it be? And I know that it was-the base would have flown away and deflated like a balloon... there are no magic workouts, nature can not be deceived, it is supposed to run 12-14 hours for vdot=72 on average, do it, but you can not, well, then I'm sorry....be glad you have it....

+1 . "theoretically...?"

TT I will do after 2 weeks, as I'm going to change running location with avg gradient from 0.3% (current location) to 1.0% (my home) just little time need to adapt and secure strength of my early injured feet.

This week after a lot of volume muscles are like sponge, but pulse is perfect, but this is normal tendency after injury, could be worse...?

Why are you talking about VDOT 72? And not believing in talent but only hard work?

Do you think that through hard work Kipchoge would have run 100 m in 9.58? Do you think that through hard work Usain Bolt would run the marathon in 2:01?

What is this obsession with VDOT 72? 2:19, 1:06, 30:15, 14:30, 8:20?

Why are you training towards a sub 2:20 marathon when you have no idea what your current shape is, what your potential is, when you haven't even trained for a year? When you haven't trained 3 months without getting hurt?

I understand that you and your coach have this fixation with your goal of sub 2:20 and I am all for people following their dreams and not listening to naysayers.

I guess I and others are just trying to avoid a train wreck but if you want to go full steam ahead and see what happens, well, I will watch and see if I learn anything from it.

I spoke directly with Coach.

What I want to change in DANCAN system:

1) volume of easy runs to be increased

2) main principle to be the same:

-1 running economy workout (various distance/volume/pace)

-1 LT workout (various)

- 1 Long run and M specific workout (various)

But all above individually scheduled personally for my profile with good modulation:

a) I noticed something like this: every 48h-60h after each workout I have worse condition, for me is better to do first day

workout and than next day even another workout or long run.

b) example:

workout-workout-easy (very good)

workout-easy-easy-workout (acceptable)

workout-easy-workout (the worse scenario for me)

workout-easy-easy-easy-workout (good)

3) strength training and core routine

4) special drills and exercises for injury prevention

5) hills run (easy, fartlek, strides, etc.)

For what am I paying for??

I have idea what my current shape is, I do not train like 02:20 even closer, but want to reach and develop. With 7-9h it is absolutely impossible with my current shape even after 2 years of training. To shave 5s from 3K PB by one year of training that is funny... especially when it is 09:25, better learn guitar or play chess ???