It's Time for College Intercollegiate Athletics to Disappear

P5 runner here. This is a running forum yet you advocate for the demise of the sport that this forum represents. The club model will not work in the US, the NCAA develops the best talent for Olympic Sports

p5ath wrote:

P5 runner here. This is a running forum yet you advocate for the demise of the sport that this forum represents. The club model will not work in the US, the NCAA develops the best talent for Olympic Sports

I don't advocate for anything. I definitely don't advocate for the demise of XC and Track, however there are more ways to pursue success in xc and track than just the intercollegiate system.

I am simply looking at the situation and seeing that it is very likely not sustainable, especially with increasing costs, demands, and liabilities. And I am talking about all intercollegiate sports, not just xc and tf.

I also did not say that the only solution was the elimination of all intercollegiate sports (despite my title for the thread). I said that either the elimination of intercollegiate sports or a DIII model are the best and most likely outcomes of a system that has become bloated with an overspending arms race and now athletes that expect to be paid and supported for years after their college careers.

It's a cost benefit equation. Intercollegiate sports aren't a necessity and they aren't a right. They only exist to benefit the bottom line of colleges and universities. That could be actual dollars or tv revenue or enrollment increases or PR which creates dollars or whatever creates income and benefit. If the cost exceeds the benefit, they cannot and will not exist as they do now.

Finally, you cannot say the club system won't work in the US. I would say that if intercollegiate athletics did go away, a club system would succeed. There would be no other choice.

Either way, club system or DIII model, those that truly care about running and want to be good will pursue it with all they have, and without the same sense of entitlement.

I thought schools are making billions of dollars on NCAA stuff. All these posters crying pauper. Where the f is the money going? And doesn't it say a lot if the NCAA is pulling in such absurd money and yet there's no money to pay the athletes?

Or hell just let them have endorsement deals outside the school if the schools "can't pay" for them. Which I think is b.s.

Capitalism is such BS when people can make millions off your likeness and yet there is nothing leftover for you.

NCAA monopoly on monetizing “student” athlete likeness is not capitalism at all. I agree make these athletes employees of the schools and stop making class work a requirement. Then make them competitive with each other by offering salaries that are competitive. That’s capitalism.

Just like everyone else, I have no idea what the future will bring.

What follows is just my opinion..

I am somewhere in the middle on C19... meaning, I think it's serious but honestly not sure if it's serious enough to continue to shut everything down (I don't want to get into a discussion about that here... we can't resolve that... I simply don't know which it is).

Beyond that..what exists now in college athletics is something that has evolved over the last 40+ years... meaning the system in place didn't just happen so wherever we go from here will not happen overnight

Given that many D1 universities are cancelling football (and at this point, perhaps basketball too) the money for their budgets will now go to a fraction of what it was. The people in control will not all of a sudden decide to do what's best for sports long term, instead they will try to protect what already exists because the existing system is how they make their living.

Short term it seems this will result in cutting minor sports and budgets first then they'll start cutting administrative jobs until eventually what exists now will no longer be the set up. So yes, something will take it's place... club sports seemingly, but this won't happen quickly and the result will be many many student athletes over the next several years will suffer because of it. Participation in all sports will drop and student athletes will miss out on the experience that many of us were able to enjoy and prosper from over the last 40+ years.

It's unfortunate for all of them... so yes sure eventually a different system will take the place of what we have but it will be a painful process for many... and truthfully will be sad to see until a new system fully takes it's place.

Just my opinion.

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I thought schools are making billions of dollars on NCAA stuff. All these posters crying pauper. Where the f is the money going? And doesn't it say a lot if the NCAA is pulling in such absurd money and yet there's no money to pay the athletes?

Or hell just let them have endorsement deals outside the school if the schools "can't pay" for them. Which I think is b.s.

Capitalism is such BS when people can make millions off your likeness and yet there is nothing leftover for you.

I don't understand why people ask where the money goes. The NCAA's most recent audited financial statements are right here. Making billions is a pretty wild overstatement.

Also, the athletes are going to get compensated for their likeness, and very soon. It's been stated ad nauseum in the media lately. Have you seen that?

The site is not called LetsCollegeTrackAndField, kiddo. The world of running is MUCH MUCH bigger than your little collegiate track season.

Collegiate athletics in the US have no doubt contributed to the explosion of tuition costs for students. It's far past time for college athletics to stop being subsidized by universities. There is much of the world of running outside of college track. MUCH.

What about the programs that are subsidized by direct alumni/private donor funding and barely get anything from the university? That's how my college XC/T&F program works, in addition to all the other sports there (Patriot League). Many programs across the country are run this way.

Athletics that are club/intramural in nature and/or self-funding, that's great. Even better would be a complete disconnect of serious athletics from university systems entirely. No other country in the world develops athletes the way we do, by asking universities to incorporate them into their mission.

It's my strong belief that university tuition increases have been driven in substantial part by all of the tangential aspects they have taken on, one of them being elite athletics. The college kid who participates in sports to become well-rounded, or for fun and individual development, and NOT as an elite or subsidized representative of the university, that's what university athletics can, and should, be.

The pros, the elites, the coaches, build some other system. Build clubs. Build other channels. Look at how other countries develop their elites. Universities are in crisis in this country and it's time to look at ways to make them function properly again, and in ways that allow normal kids to go to school without taking on massive debt to graduate.

It's your strong belief, but is it true?

University tuition is out of control for plenty of reasons, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if college sports, for over 90% of colleges, are not very high on the list of reasons why.

This entire conversation over athlete compensation and amateur status in general really apply to over 95% of student athletes in the NCAA today.

jasonderulo wrote:

It's your strong belief, but is it true?

University tuition is out of control for plenty of reasons, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if college sports, for over 90% of colleges, are not very high on the list of reasons why.

This entire conversation over athlete compensation and amateur status in general really apply to over 95% of student athletes in the NCAA today.

University tuition's being out of control has started in DC... it's by design.

Please share your conspiracy theory

CancellLRC wrote:

Even better would be a complete disconnect of serious athletics from university systems entirely. No other country in the world develops athletes the way we do, by asking universities to incorporate them into their mission.

Ummm... have you ever heard of a country named Japan? It's in the Western Pacific off the coast of the Asian continent...

The Chronicle of Higher Education had an article a few years ago explaining why college tuition has risen so much more than the cost of living. The second biggest reason is a sort of arms race to attract students with impressive facilities, posh dorms, multiple dining options, "free" services like shuttles to local towns, shopping malls, computer repair, etc. The absolute biggest factor is the explosion of administrative jobs. The ratio of students to administrators has dropped tremendously in the past few decades. Administrators usually are paid very nicely and produce very little aside from even more administrators. Athletics was not given as a significant factor.

I think there is need to bifurcate between "can make $ and support" and "needs $ from university"

1) For profit-making sports - quit pretending that they are students, make it a pro league that represents the university. Athletes can negotiate contracts. Teams can pay the school to use facilities and stadiums. This will be like the NFL, but played on Saturdays!

2) For negative-profit sports, each team is a P&L center which uses "service centers" at the school. If you want to stay in the black, go shake down alumi, find sponsors or host meets/events. Eliminate athletic scholarships for these sports they are a drag on athletic budgets, unless the sport can generate enough revenue to cover the cost. The idea that running around a plastic circle fast should entitle you to free college classes is absurd. These sports should look like D3 or even most D2 programs. I know several "pro" ($20-60K for a couple of years of not making it) runners who ended up in that "profession" because they realized their degree is worthless and that was the only option.

You are right. Sat for a first freshman class with 5th year seniors on football and basketball teams at a D1 school. The level of the material was 7th grade at best. None of them graduated. Definitely not students - pro athletes. Awesome athletes.

College needs to be revamped. I spent 5 years to get an accounting degree, you can get all the necessary teaching into 2 years easy. I think I really only needed about 8-10 classes.

The student loan program needs to be removed. Democrats want to forgive loans, but what’s the point if they are still giving them out?!

Make college sports 2-3 years max. You get in, and you get out. Make more clubs here so people can still train in teams if they like.

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