The data was released with the 4% including all independent lab studies. Should I research it for you?
The data was released with the 4% including all independent lab studies. Should I research it for you?
It’s physically impossible for Nike Vaporflys, or any shoe for that matter, to create more force than the runner produces. Type into google: The Law of Conservation of Energy
You might find your answer there.
that dude wrote:
skeptic0 wrote:
ah, so like the shoes worn by the athletes who qualified for the US Olympic marathon team?
Riley literally put off signing with a company so he could race in the Next%. Now he’s an Olympian.
4/6 qualifiers were wearing Nike technology. Hard to deny that Nike is currently the gold standard.
What kind of logic is this? You're telling me he didn't sign with a company for 4 years just so he could race in the vaporfly? And then after making the team he signed with a company(not Nike) which he admitted didn't have a racing flat which was competitive with Nike's
Yeah, sure sure all you smart guys, the same douche types rallying around $10,000 aero carbon on the road. These carbon plate shoes are cheating the sport by inflating performances, AND they are killing affordability of ALL running shoes for the rest of us. What about that don't you understand, or are you cool with a damned pair of running shoes going for $150-250+?
That’s not how competition works. As more companies make super shoes or shoes with new tech, the price moves down to entice customers.
Maybe you need to re-evaluate your argument if your insults towards others is acknowledging they are smarter than you.
All of these arguments point to the corruption brought about by these new technologies. It should NEVER be about the shoes. Never. Swimming was vastly improved by going away from the arms race in swimsuits and running is going to sh!t because of these asterisk-prone performances. Good on swimming, boo to running.
skeptic0 wrote:
that dude wrote:
Riley literally put off signing with a company so he could race in the Next%. Now he’s an Olympian.
4/6 qualifiers were wearing Nike technology. Hard to deny that Nike is currently the gold standard.
What kind of logic is this? You're telling me he didn't sign with a company for 4 years just so he could race in the vaporfly? And then after making the team he signed with a company(not Nike) which he admitted didn't have a racing flat which was competitive with Nike's
Yeah, nope.
sizlin wrote:
Maybe you need to re-evaluate your argument if your insults towards others is acknowledging they are smarter than you.
skeptic0 wrote:
that dude wrote:
Riley literally put off signing with a company so he could race in the Next%. Now he’s an Olympian.
4/6 qualifiers were wearing Nike technology. Hard to deny that Nike is currently the gold standard.
What kind of logic is this? You're telling me he didn't sign with a company for 4 years just so he could race in the vaporfly? And then after making the team he signed with a company(not Nike) which he admitted didn't have a racing flat which was competitive with Nike's
Yes, this is 100% correct. Jacob has had crazy injury problems since 2016, so he’s not really been in a position to command any sort of sponsorship prior to his breakthrough in Chicago.
Enjoy:
“ Another of Riley’s decisions came months before today’s race. When Riley ran his 2:10 in Chicago, he did not have a shoe sponsor, choosing to race in Nike’s Vaporfly Next%’s. After his breakthrough, Riley, who is currently studying for his master’s in mechanical engineering at the University of Colorado, received some interest from shoe companies. But he also really liked how the Next%’s felt in that race — he famously said they felt like “running on trampolines.” He decided that, unless a company made a big offer, he wanted to retain the flexibility to race in the Next% at the Trials.”
Also here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jacob-riley-explains-how-he-ran-race-his-life-to-make/id1204506559?i=1000467686706so is he overly confident in his sponsor or does he not care how he finishes at the olympics?
WhyRegisterHere? wrote:
Yeah, sure sure all you smart guys, the same douche types rallying around $10,000 aero carbon on the road. These carbon plate shoes are cheating the sport by inflating performances, AND they are killing affordability of ALL running shoes for the rest of us. What about that don't you understand, or are you cool with a damned pair of running shoes going for $150-250+?
Some people are leaders , some are followers . Just like companies. Nike made the choice to lead with research . The Other companies follow , get close then complain . This is like plain women complaining they are not as beautiful like Maria Sharapova. Then they complain that all she has is looks , then Maria shows them she build a candy company from scratch now worth 200 million dollars.
skeptic0 wrote:
so is he overly confident in his sponsor or does he not care how he finishes at the olympics?
You’d have to ask Jacob that question.
You can join the swimming community and go where your tiny little speedo then. I’m sure they’ll take you.
Ah yes, Nike, another contemptible mega corporation that needs to be broken up. Those billions and billions will hopefully come in handy when we finally tax wealth and corporations like we're holding them upside down and shaking every last nickel from their pockets. Maybe those dollars can be put to better use than by athletes skewing results with gadgetry.
WFH F-you wrote:
Some people are leaders , some are followers . Just like companies. Nike made the choice to lead with research . The Other companies follow , get close then complain . This is like plain women complaining they are not as beautiful like Maria Sharapova. Then they complain that all she has is looks , then Maria shows them she build a candy company from scratch now worth 200 million dollars.
sizlin wrote:
You can join the swimming community and go where your tiny little speedo then. I’m sure they’ll take you.
*wear
C’mon, man....
that dude wrote:
skeptic0 wrote:
ah, so like the shoes worn by the athletes who qualified for the US Olympic marathon team?
Riley literally put off signing with a company so he could race in the Next%. Now he’s an Olympian.
4/6 qualifiers were wearing Nike technology. Hard to deny that Nike is currently the gold standard.
I wonder how many trials participants wore Vaporflys when you subtract all the runners who were paid to wear another brand and look at amateurs only. Pretty close to 100% I bet.
yes but Nike was letting people race in them for free if I recall correctly, then again you would just see more vaporflys and less alphaflys if they didn't lmao
There is a reason carbon fiber is used on high performance cars. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel and aluminum, and also lighter than both. Have you ever tried to bend one of these shoes?...good luck! If any plate in a shoe were to act like a spring, it’d be a shoe like the Saucony Speed or the Zoom Fly OG/SP due to the nylon plate. As nylon isn’t near as rigid as carbon fiber obviously and can bend.
The plate in the Vapor/Alphafly is there for 3 reasons by my estimation. To give the ZoomX structure, to make the shoe a “rocker” style shoe, and to make your foot rigid. The ZoomX foam is there for 2 reasons by my estimation also, and that is “padding/protection” from the foot strike and to get you up onto the “S curve“ of the plate. If anything is a spring...it’s the foam...and in all honesty it’s not a very good one. It’s better at keeping your feet and legs from getting beat-up more than anything. Which is pretty evident by how many people say how good their legs feel after a marathon in these shoes.
These shoe literally turns your foot into a lever, due to the plate not allowing it bend like a normal shoe. Try taping a piece of 2x4 to the bottom of your shoe. That is essentially what the plate is doing but with an “S curve“ in it to propel you forward. This is why some people struggle with them. Carbon plated shoes should not be used most of the time. Your ankles can atrophy a bit if used too much.
But anyone that says the carbon fiber plate is a spring doesn’t understand the rigidity of the material. A guy like Kofuzi always talks about “pop” in carbon plated shoes In his videos and it makes me cringe a bit because he doesn’t really understand the mechanics of it.
WhyRegisterHere? wrote:
WOW you wrote the most smug post I've ever read. I don't know you and I want to punch you and break your nose.
Those carbon plates flex you liar. They are not completely rigid.
Your mother hates you too and will be very happy when someone breaks your nose.
Ricardo Ruderness wrote:
That's cool - I agree with banning shoes with "springs" in them too. Big problem you have is that "these shoes" doesn't apply to anything Nike have done because quite simply they don't have springs in them. They have a curved plate - carbon fiber to make it super stiff and light, with a drop of 10mm and it's resistance to bending (the opposite of what a spring fundamentally needs to do to work) being the key physiological/performance features of this plate. It's not a spring - go do some research on springs, what they are and how they perform, and then ask yourself how a mildly curved plate, with the bending a human foot puts on it during footstrike, acts like a spring. Because it doesn't. Sorry bro.
So your main concern must then lie with the "magical" zoom X foam? Well no foam has enough inherent ability to generate enough force to actively "push" or "propel" a human of almost any mass - let alone ones that begin (let's say for arguments sake) at 100lbs. No foam (as close as we have to a spring) is perfectly efficient - most lose between 20-30% of the net force applied to them.
Quick question - were you equally up in arms when EVA replaced PU as the main cushioning/"spring" material in shoes back in 1975 by Brooks? Were you pissed when adidas introduced formed TPU pellet foam back in 2012 that was a 8% more efficient "spring" than EVA? In fact if you want to get factual, that jump was far greater than what we have seen with Zoom X - thats main benefit is actually it's compliancy (how much it compresses into that 10mm drop I mentioned earlier) and not it's resiliency (energy "return").
Yeah you see how easy it is for people who know what they are talking about to deal with people like you who make idiotic and fact-devoid comments like "these shoes with carbon fiber 'springs' need to be ruled illegal". It's actually incredibly easy my friend.
Have a good one.
Good - that was the point of it. I actually feel the same way about people who, in conversations that require fact and knowledge, talk complete and utter BS (as someone else pointed out too) - I want to actually punch their teeth in. In fact, I've found it is incredibly easy to deal with people like you, however as a law-abiding citizen I don't result to violence so my words do the punching.
"The Carbon plates flex you liar" - Thanks for that word of wisdom - funnily enough I'm sitting in front of bunch now my friend. I tell you what, since you aren't (hence why you have no clue in world how these work) - why don't you have a good think about just how your foot might actually flex when it runs. Notice the direction and way the MTP joints flex (google it buddy) and then find something rigid (a ruler, heck even a plastic spoon will work). Now flex it in the same place and see what happens. See the problem with your theory is that in order for any spring effect to occur from the plate the ends of the plate need to be fixed ie. immovable. So your toe is - its pushing into the ground - but your heel isn't so nothing is creating the resistance needed for an elastic rebound effect to occur that would benefit the runner. In fact even if the heel end was fixed the plate we rebound in the wrong direction and no benefit the runner anyway. Even in a practical sense the fact the plates are surrounded and embedded in foam lessens this possibility even more.
Plate in Vaporflys = Increase lever length of foot by "locking MTP" joint. Reduce fatigue in MTP joint by reducing movement of said joint. Work in conjunction with easily compressible foam (Zoom X) to allow 10mm of rear to fore-foot drop putting athlete in more biomechanically dynamic and efficient position for running without them needing to do it themselves.
Is that good enough for you? How you enjoy that figurative punch in the face?
It’s hilarious to hear people like register spit their useless crap about vaporflys without knowing the science behind them. “But, but they’re cheating!!”” Absolutely laughable. These guys need to retake high school physics!
Ricardo Ruderness wrote:
WhyRegisterHere? wrote:
WOW you wrote the most smug post I've ever read. I don't know you and I want to punch you and break your nose.
Those carbon plates flex you liar. They are not completely rigid.
Your mother hates you too and will be very happy when someone breaks your nose.
Good - that was the point of it. I actually feel the same way about people who, in conversations that require fact and knowledge, talk complete and utter BS (as someone else pointed out too) - I want to actually punch their teeth in. In fact, I've found it is incredibly easy to deal with people like you, however as a law-abiding citizen I don't result to violence so my words do the punching.
"The Carbon plates flex you liar" - Thanks for that word of wisdom - funnily enough I'm sitting in front of bunch now my friend. I tell you what, since you aren't (hence why you have no clue in world how these work) - why don't you have a good think about just how your foot might actually flex when it runs. Notice the direction and way the MTP joints flex (google it buddy) and then find something rigid (a ruler, heck even a plastic spoon will work). Now flex it in the same place and see what happens. See the problem with your theory is that in order for any spring effect to occur from the plate the ends of the plate need to be fixed ie. immovable. So your toe is - its pushing into the ground - but your heel isn't so nothing is creating the resistance needed for an elastic rebound effect to occur that would benefit the runner. In fact even if the heel end was fixed the plate we rebound in the wrong direction and no benefit the runner anyway. Even in a practical sense the fact the plates are surrounded and embedded in foam lessens this possibility even more.
Plate in Vaporflys = Increase lever length of foot by "locking MTP" joint. Reduce fatigue in MTP joint by reducing movement of said joint. Work in conjunction with easily compressible foam (Zoom X) to allow 10mm of rear to fore-foot drop putting athlete in more biomechanically dynamic and efficient position for running without them needing to do it themselves.
Is that good enough for you? How you enjoy that figurative punch in the face?
What’s your obsession with punching people in the face?
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