Toni Reavis pens 1,500 word essay decrying NY Times "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" article as BULLSHIT

?????? wrote:

Your self-awareness is lacking enough for you to join in on me roasting you for oversimplifying things???

Yes, people make decisions on their own without physical coercion, but can you acknowledge that there are factors that influence the decisions they choose to make?

No one makes a choice in a vacuum. We always have a choice, absolutely, but that misses a lot of the context. I'm sure you've said "I had no choice", when what you really meant was, you had a choice...but choosing one option was so unappealing that it didn't feel viable.

Hes joining you because your pathetic attempt at sarcasm proved his point. Factors or no factors, they had a choice, equal opportunity, to participate.

How about this for a factor. Distance running requires 2-3 hours of practice every day, requires sacrifices like boring early bedtimes, limiting electronic use, forgoing social events and relationship building, healthy diet, limiting or restricting alcohol use. Could those potentially be a factor in someone's decision making?

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Hes joining you because your pathetic attempt at sarcasm proved his point. Factors or no factors, they had a choice, equal opportunity, to participate.

How about this for a factor. Distance running requires 2-3 hours of practice every day, requires sacrifices like boring early bedtimes, limiting electronic use, forgoing social events and relationship building, healthy diet, limiting or restricting alcohol use. Could those potentially be a factor in someone's decision making?

We should certainly look into those factors as well. Good point.

Looks like someone wants to exclude and eliminate white people for good..

http://www.stationgossip.com/2020/05/well-just-get-rid-of-all-whites-in.html

Do some research before posting your garbage. Seriously, are you mentally ill?

https://blkmenrun.com/

Caucasian, white, aryan, European and the R1a haplogroup are NOT synonymous. This is kind of my point. The definitions of white are changable - Jews, Arabs, Berbers, Irish and Italians have at various points been included and excluded from the definition of white.

You have not experienced racism. People of all races and creeds can be bigoted, discriminatory or just nasty. But racism is structural. Non-white people do not have the capability to affect your status the 'typical' American - the standard to which everyone else is judged.

You of course may have suffered legitimate societal limitations because you might be working-class, gay or a women. This is often why these groups support each other against racism, sexism, homophobia and support left-wing economic policies. It has nothing to do with any conspiracy to destroy America or whites and everything to do with solidarity.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

How about this for a factor. Distance running requires 2-3 hours of practice every day, requires sacrifices like boring early bedtimes, limiting electronic use, forgoing social events and relationship building, healthy diet, limiting or restricting alcohol use. Could those potentially be a factor in someone's decision making?

Your insane attempts to gaslight this conversation are par for the course on this forum. I don't really want to discuss all the factors that affect sports participation, because I think doing so distracts from the reality that people of color make decisions with different context than white people typically do.

So you're whole thing is to muddy the view as to who is white. I get it. You have agenda and you are committed. Seem you also watch too much Hollywood.

Don't know what definition you speak of but modern teachings and genetic outcomes have shown us that Italians, Irish, and most Jews are white. Should be a no-brainer there but anyway.

I haven't met a single educated person from Chile to Armenia to Korea who thought otherwise.

You do know Arab generally refers to a cultural/linguistic group that stretches from Morocco to Iraq encompassing many different peoples? Including may whites in the ME? It's simple. Just look at the majority haplogroups.

While you're at it, take a look at the racism that exists even in north Africa..

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/beyond-trafficking-and-slavery/being-black-in-north-africa-and-middle-east/

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

No. Pretty sure the slave owners that I noted kept black folks enslaved for generations paid the slave traders.

Why would you believe I think otherwise?

Easy, you felt the need to make that distinction. Paying a kidnapper incentivises kidnapping. Remove the paying buyer and kidnapping is probably not apt to occur.

I made the point that it was not Americans who kidnapped the Africans. Which is true.

I further made the point it was Americans who enslave people for multi generations. Also true and hardly an apology for them.

Correcting a false statement -- that Americans kidnapped the Africans for slavery -- is not an apology for the American slave-holders.

is that really too nuanced for you?

This thread has wandered a long way from Tony Reavis's essay. Maybe tone down the psychodrama a little?

KudzuRunner wrote:

This thread has wandered a long way from Tony Reavis's essay. Maybe tone down the psychodrama a little?

Race is like a boil. When you lance it - like this debate did over the NY Times article and the Reavis response - you know what will come out.

Lebanese hunk #4 wrote:

So you're whole thing is to muddy the view as to who is white. I get it. You have agenda and you are committed. Seem you also watch too much Hollywood.

Don't know what definition you speak of but modern teachings and genetic outcomes have shown us that Italians, Irish, and most Jews are white. Should be a no-brainer there but anyway.

I haven't met a single educated person from Chile to Armenia to Korea who thought otherwise.

You do know Arab generally refers to a cultural/linguistic group that stretches from Morocco to Iraq encompassing many different peoples? Including may whites in the ME? It's simple. Just look at the majority haplogroups.

While you're at it, take a look at the racism that exists even in north Africa..

Would a hijab-wearing Iraqi woman really be considered white in the USA today? Would those arguing that we want to "settle with our own kind" (your own words) or have "preferences" really treat them as white because of some haploid?

Would white nationalists (I'm NOT suggesting you are) invite north Africans, Saudis and Jews into a white ethnostate?

No. It's a changeable definition.

Giles Corey wrote:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Easy, you felt the need to make that distinction. Paying a kidnapper incentivises kidnapping. Remove the paying buyer and kidnapping is probably not apt to occur.

I made the point that it was not Americans who kidnapped the Africans. Which is true.

I further made the point it was Americans who enslave people for multi generations. Also true and hardly an apology for them.

Correcting a false statement -- that Americans kidnapped the Africans for slavery -- is not an apology for the American slave-holders.

is that really too nuanced for you?

No, actually too irrelevant. But clearly not for a mental heavyweight like you.

just the New York Times race baiting. what else is new?

I think regardless of whether the New York times Op-ed was correct or not the way the topic was presented was offensive. I don't see running as a sport that actively works to exclude anyone and the way the New York Times article came out it immediately had an accusatory tone and put the running community on the defensive.

I don't understand why people who are trying to seek change in relations between those of different backgrounds don't get this. Being divisive and putting people on the defense is not an effective mechanism to change. It just offends and makes them dig into their position.

KudzuRunner wrote:

This thread has wandered a long way from Tony Reavis's essay. Maybe tone down the psychodrama a little?

Drama whipped up by others.

And I will response to attacks on my comments, you passive aggressive wimp

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

I made the point that it was not Americans who kidnapped the Africans. Which is true.

I further made the point it was Americans who enslave people for multi generations. Also true and hardly an apology for them.

Correcting a false statement -- that Americans kidnapped the Africans for slavery -- is not an apology for the American slave-holders.

is that really too nuanced for you?

No, actually too irrelevant. But clearly not for a mental heavyweight like you.

No need to whine just because you got called on your BS

Don't forget to mention the ethnic conflicts that have existed for 1000s of years among black populations in Africa.

c$ wrote:

It would be a good thing to have more African American participation in distance running, not just sprinting.

Clearly a lot of factors go into the decision to be a runner but I can certainly see how African Americans might have an aversion to lacing up the shoes given the long history of racism in this country.

We should seek out ways to make the sport more inclusive.

How do you make a primary solo endeavor more inclusive? Park paths and trails don't have "Whites Only" signs that I am aware of anymore. Anyone can use them.

People don't want to deal with the real issue here and that's the sad fact that their will always be people who make judgements and assumptions on anyone who "looks different" than the local majority. Some places in the USA are worse than others in that regard. In some ways those people want to feel like they have control over you. Don't give them the majority that satisfaction.

Of course you will tell me that they were just trolling wrote:

The nyt article may be flawed. However, I would like to present the previous thread about it, which had to be locked due to the massive amount of overt racism being posted to it, as an example to show that maybe the running community does gave a bit of a racism problem.

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Impossible.

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