hulksmash wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:Do you seriously think Gatlin in benefiting from PEDs he took a decade ago?
This theory would imply not just that he's still benefiting from prior use but that the benefits have increased over time. He's running faster now than he was then. Doesn't stand up to the least bit of scrutiny.
Wow!
I never thought about it that way; perhaps the secret is to dope and then stop.
Video of the race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhpTuAcD3Ds
Let up was minimal. He wasn't shutting down.
Momentum was there. Lost .01 if anything.
Sal Maglie wrote:
Gatlin gun wrote:Yes, I actually did.
OK, here's a list of all the people who have ever gone sub-10:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrierIt lists the age they were when they did it, and also the year they achieved their best time. I'm not seeing anybody who fits the profile of a guy who was either a) 33 years old when they first broke 10, or b) broke 10 earlier, but achieved their best time at age 33.
Unless, of course, you actually are Justin Gatlin. Or you're Linford Christie, posting on LetsRun at "Gatlin gun".
How many sprinters on that list ran 10.05 at age 19? Most of the guys on that list didn't run 10.05 until their mid-20s. Gatlin was running sub-10s at age 20 with high school mechanics. His 2 years at TN, he was just learning how to sprint, in high school I think he was mainly a hurdler and jumper. Perhaps Gatlin is not at his peak, perhaps he could have run 9.6x years ago if hadn't stopped competing and 9.7x is what he's capable of right now. Also, Gatlin ran 9.8 at age 30...it's not like he was slow, turned 33 and started running great times. I spoke to Gatlin in 2009 in Greensboro at the H.S. Nationals. Gatlin told me in 2009 that he was going to run faster when he comes back. I felt sad for him (in a way), but he was absolutely serious. I was absolutely amazed that he never stopped training (everyday) and he looked surprisingly fit, albeit not at the level of a world class sprinter. When he came back in 2011 and was running 9.9x 10 pounds overweight, I knew then that Gatlin was going to run faster as he got into race shape. Also, Gatlin's coach, Brooks Johnson in an interview in 2010, just before Gatlin started competing again said that Gatlin was going to win Global Championship medals. He was basically laughed at and I was one of the biggest naysayers.
Check out my TrackTalk post from May 2011
http://www.tracktalk.net/re-brooks-johnson-justin-gatlin-t7256.htmlCoach Johnson gets the last laugh! What Coach Johnson knew back then that most of us didn't was that Gatlin was extremely talented, the talent was still there, but Gatlin overweight, undertrained and in time could be great again (clean). Btw, from what I have been told, Gatlin didn't raise his hands and say, "hey give me some dope". Gatlin's coach back then was Trevor Graham, who was also like a father figure. All of his teammates were doping and having success and Gatlin basically bite the line on this is what everybody is doing. With that said, I make no apologies for Gatlin being an ex-doper, but to anyone who thinks he is still doping or benefiting from past use...it helps to know the backstory.
Yeag roghtg wrote:
Gatlin runs 9.74 at 33. Everyone - he's doped
Meb runs a PR at 39. Everyone Meb just works harder. Nothing to see.
Yea but Meb's PR isn't that fast. What, 2:08? If Meb ran the fast time in the world (~2:04) then yes a lot of people would say he's doping.
TrackCoach wrote:
How many sprinters on that list ran 10.05 at age 19? Most of the guys on that list didn't run 10.05 until their mid-20s. . ....
No, but there are OTHER guys who've run sub 10.1 at 19/20 who never went anywhere near 9.73.
The "perhaps he could've run faster earlier" doesn't jive. He was doping and didn't run 9.6's prior to his 4 year ban. So let's assume during those 4 years was his "peak". Right before his peak, while doping, he didn't run 9.6's. So to assume that some kind of "clean peak" would've been in that ballpark is more than unlikely, imo.
Further, even with a fabled clean peak of 9.6x, to run 9.73 at 33? In May? After missing 4 years of competition? Remarkable. The standard trajectory from here would be for someone like that to drop t least .1 sec over this summer, if not more. So you're suggesting he's still going to run 9.6x at age 33. Clean?
[quote]TrackCoach wrote:
How many sprinters on that list ran 10.05 at age 19? Most of the guys on that list didn't run 10.05 until their mid-20s. Gatlin was running sub-10s at age 20 with high school mechanics. His 2 years at TN, he was just learning how to sprint, in high school I think he was mainly a hurdler and jumper.
What the f-hole are you talking about? Did you even look at the list? Because it lists the age at which every runner first broke 10. There are 3 guys on the list who broke 10 as teenagers, and at least 13 total who were younger than Gatlin when they first broke 10. Most runners on the list made the list by their mid-20s.
"Gatlin was running sub-10s at age 20...." Wrong. 21 years 186 days.
TrackCoach wrote:
hulksmash wrote:This theory would imply not just that he's still benefiting from prior use but that the benefits have increased over time. He's running faster now than he was then. Doesn't stand up to the least bit of scrutiny.
Wow!
I never thought about it that way; perhaps the secret is to dope and then stop.
How_it_is wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:Wow!
I never thought about it that way; perhaps the secret is to dope and then stop.
Now that Gatlin is sponsored by Nike, He is probably getting coaching advice from Alberto Salazaar. Justin Gatlin is now a member of the Nike project.
IGF -1 lr3 ...........
that how it is
Thats how
being done now , without this peptide
( Regardless of testosterone or epo especially as microdosing )
would be running 9.90 - 10 if at all.
igf is key especially these older athletes.
wtfunny wrote:No, but there are OTHER guys who've run sub 10.1 at 19/20 who never went anywhere near 9.73
wrong distance
gatlin wasn't concentrating on 100 when 19/20
his best event was 200 when he ran 19.86
he only took to 100 seriously when turning pro as that is the big event
try more like, "does it surprise anyone that a 19.8 guy at 20y, who doesn;t even concentrate on the 100, woud eventually run 9.7 when he did ?"
The "perhaps he could've run faster earlier" doesn't jive
you seem clueless about that 9.77 of his from yore
he was peaking for trials & probably wouda run 9.7-flat that year & maybe even dipped into 9.6s based on doha
He was doping and didn't run 9.6's prior to his 4 year ban
because doha is an early season meet
he ran 9.77 because he was forced to by fasuba who split an incredible 6.35 in a 9.86
6.35 is split for a 9.70
anyone with a clue who was anticipating that meet & watched it live on satellite, didn't expect better than 9.9/10.0 for justin prior to that meet as his 1st serious 100 of year
So let's assume during those 4 years was his "peak". Right before his peak, while doping, he didn't run 9.6's. So to assume that some kind of "clean peak" would've been in that ballpark is more than unlikely, imo
nonsense
after that 9.77, anyone following the 100 expected real shot at 9.6 that year but he got banned soon after doha
Further, even with a fabled clean peak of 9.6x, to run 9.73 at 33? In May? After missing 4 years of competition? Remarkable. The standard trajectory from here would be for someone like that to drop t least .1 sec over this summer, if not more. So you're suggesting he's still going to run 9.6x at age 33 Clean?
clueless
- christie ran 9.87 to win wc at 33y in great race
that was 0.01s off wr which was set on illegal track with lot more wind
christie therefore basically ran wr at 33y
- ottey ran 10.74 at 36y !!!
that was 2nd fastest performer ever, only behind flo-jo & relegating ashford's 10.76 to 3rd place
sprinters have run comparatively better than justin at same age or much older
People's Champ wrote:Where are you getting these formulas?
it's application of physics
ever heard of physics ???
I can make up a function that makes 10 lbs of weight loss = 8.95, who cares?
offer it
i woud care but in this case for just a laugh :
if a guy runs 8.95 with 10lb weight loss, his previous clocking woud be ~ 9.10s
also learn to read :
i said weight loss of blubber with no loss of power
Also, unless your day job is a "guess your weight: carny, how are you eyeballing his weight?
i have seen justin's big races thruout his career, ever since devastating win at '03 60i wc & he looks 5 - 10 pounds heavier currently than last year & he isn't going to be this heavy at season peak
Did you factor in the camera putting on 10 lbs?
& the camera didn't put 10lbs on him in previous years ???
Forgetting that just like in doha 2006
And this year,conditions perfect.
wasnt going to find much better ones
throughout 2006
why wasnt he doubling up with 200m
As often or until last year .
Where was this added speed endurance ....
like christie wasnt riddled with steroids
and hgh prolongingly affair
and steroids ultimatly take its tole on body
so never going close to p.b times by late 30
unlike here gatlin if allowed will be running
very fast times til 40 like collins running p.b
using certain peptide.
Vent
I will make some comments in response to yours if you promise to stop deleting my posts everytime I disagree with you, along with the those of everyone else when they point out discrepancies in your commentary.
TrackCoach wrote:
Sal Maglie wrote:OK, here's a list of all the people who have ever gone sub-10:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrierIt lists the age they were when they did it, and also the year they achieved their best time. I'm not seeing anybody who fits the profile of a guy who was either a) 33 years old when they first broke 10, or b) broke 10 earlier, but achieved their best time at age 33.
Unless, of course, you actually are Justin Gatlin. Or you're Linford Christie, posting on LetsRun at "Gatlin gun".
How many sprinters on that list ran 10.05 at age 19? Most of the guys on that list didn't run 10.05 until their mid-20s. Gatlin was running sub-10s at age 20 with high school mechanics. His 2 years at TN, he was just learning how to sprint, in high school I think he was mainly a hurdler and jumper. Perhaps Gatlin is not at his peak, perhaps he could have run 9.6x years ago if hadn't stopped competing and 9.7x is what he's capable of right now. Also, Gatlin ran 9.8 at age 30...it's not like he was slow, turned 33 and started running great times. I spoke to Gatlin in 2009 in Greensboro at the H.S. Nationals. Gatlin told me in 2009 that he was going to run faster when he comes back. I felt sad for him (in a way), but he was absolutely serious. I was absolutely amazed that he never stopped training (everyday) and he looked surprisingly fit, albeit not at the level of a world class sprinter. When he came back in 2011 and was running 9.9x 10 pounds overweight, I knew then that Gatlin was going to run faster as he got into race shape. Also, Gatlin's coach, Brooks Johnson in an interview in 2010, just before Gatlin started competing again said that Gatlin was going to win Global Championship medals. He was basically laughed at and I was one of the biggest naysayers.
Check out my TrackTalk post from May 2011
http://www.tracktalk.net/re-brooks-johnson-justin-gatlin-t7256.htmlCoach Johnson gets the last laugh! What Coach Johnson knew back then that most of us didn't was that Gatlin was extremely talented, the talent was still there, but Gatlin overweight, undertrained and in time could be great again (clean). Btw, from what I have been told, Gatlin didn't raise his hands and say, "hey give me some dope". Gatlin's coach back then was Trevor Graham, who was also like a father figure. All of his teammates were doping and having success and Gatlin basically bite the line on this is what everybody is doing. With that said, I make no apologies for Gatlin being an ex-doper, but to anyone who thinks he is still doping or benefiting from past use...it helps to know the backstory.
Same story with Jones
While the rest of us smoke pot in college they are on steroids
Your argument is ridiculous and can be applied to hundreds of dopers
Comparing Gatlin's times now with those in high school is pointless, because we don't know if he was clean back then.
For all I know, he could have doped back then.
Nutella1 wrote:Comparing Gatlin's times now with those in high school is pointless, because we don't know if he was clean back then.
For all I know, he could have doped back then.
utterly clueless
he was a raw kid from a poor family
drugs cost $$$
where the hell did he have the $$$ to buy drugs in college ???
even more clueless is the fact he didn't have $$$ to contest the 1st strike absurdly given to him, which meant a 2nd strike meant 4y ban or somesuch
if he had enough $$$ to buy drugs in college, he wouda used those $$$ to take his case to CAS & remove the 1st strike offense, which i have little doubt they woud have, meaning any subsequent "proper" drug +ve wouda meant same ban as anyone else :
2y
NOT
4y
you really have no clue about justin back in '02 & the nonsense surrounding that ridiculous ban or it's consequences which finished his prime years
aduck2022 wrote:Forgetting that just like in doha 2006
And this year,conditions perfect
utterly inept
conditions in doha always good
how come best run there not by justin/fasuba in '06 - '15 was
9.88 by safa ???
he's run 9,72
why on earth didn't he run 9.6 in doha ???
wasnt going to find much better ones
throughout 2006
utterly clueless
no one expected better than 9.9/10.0 for justin that early season
any satellite observer was shocked when ola ran 9.93 in prelim forcing gatlin to run 9.85pb just in prelim !!!
justin knew he coudn't coast in final coupla hours later & fasuba led to 60 in incredible 6.35, forcing justin to run into twilight zone
why wasnt he doubling up with 200m
As often or until last year
how inept are you ???
that 19.68 last year was his 1st serious 200 of year & perhaps even since comeback
are you completely clueless about sprinting ???
his coach said :
~ "justin will run a great 170/180m & we'll just see how he hangs on..."
as it was, justin ran a terrible bend, just blasting it, wide out in it, adding ~ 1.5m extra & did die ~ 170/180 but so far ahead his momentum kept him going to finish in 19.68 into a wind !!!
anyone with a clue about sprinting wouda known, that if 0 wind & sensible bend run, he wouda run
~ 19.3-high/19.4-low
anyone with a clue wouda known justin had no clue anymore whatsoever how to run a 200 anymore & just blasted it with a wild bend & holding on for dear life
Where was this added speed endurance ....
how inept are you ???
he was in 19.3-high/19.4-low shape last year if he'd had 0 wind & run a controlled bend & not 1.5m extra
& this was off zilch 200 training !!!
like christie wasnt riddled with steroids
and hgh prolongingly affair
and steroids ultimatly take its tole on body
so never going close to p.b times by late 30
utter total drivel
what part of 9.87 to win wc at 33y your neurone not comprehend ???
many observers thought he wouda retired in '91 after tokyo, as i did, as it was obvious barcelona was going to be a Carl v leroy affair
no one in their right mind expected linford to be still there in '93, let alone running 9.87 & "proper" wr !!!
you clearly have no clue about the sport or about 20y ole ???!!!
unlike here gatlin if allowed will be running
very fast times til 40 like collins running p.b
using certain peptide
inept
how the fuuuck has collins still not run below 9.96 if you think he dopes ???
how crap is this peptide if it has never allowed a former 100 champ to run nothing better in his whole life than 9.96 ???
I seriously doubt a poor family is going to buy steroids for their son to win a state title and get him a scholarship for track and field. But I could see a volunteer assistant coach reaching out to a PED guru for a designer steroid/PED cocktail to beat NCAA testing. That said track and field is a low revenue sport the pressure to have super athletes to earn points for the school team isn't the same as to get into a BCS game.....
ukathleticscoach wrote:Same story with Jones
While the rest of us smoke pot in college they are on steroids
Your argument is ridiculous and can be applied to hundreds of dopers
you really are clueless about marion
her crime was to be involved in a check-fraud scam which had incontestable evidence about her guilt, albeit she was probably a naive patsy but didn't have brains to realise
that crime couda been a 10y jail sentence
no way she coud do 10y in alcatraz or sing-sing with kids with her "elite" status & get beat-up by tough mamas
feds
or whatever elliot ness-less or sherlock-less headed balco investigation, saw his j edgar potential career move & stepped in when seeing chance of a lifetime & told her to sign a "confession" admitting to taking every drug his team coud come up with & forced deal with local prosecutors on the lock-tight check fraud case that feds woud take over & she woud still have some jail time
j edgar-less offered her alcatraz or sign blank document apart from start of
~ i marion jones
did take...
the confession was laughable !!!
i was surprised viagra wasn't on her confession !!!
epo for a sprinter back in '90s was laughable !!!
it's laughable now to take epo for a sprinter !!!
this from a woman who was needlephobic !!!
she got her jail down to coupla years in no-big-mama-joint & no regular beat-ups in shower or forcibly inducted into
kingdom of
sappho
as to whether marion did actually doped in her life, get a clue :
she ran 11.17 at age 15y !!!
you think she was doping at 15y ???
she didn't even run serious track '93/'94
she didn't even run track '95/'96 as playing hoops !!!
lost years of her prime & no nonsense start in 100, no serious endurance work for 200 ,& no technique in lj
i e
get tellez on the phone with whoever coached stanley floyd !!!
she'd got decent coach at 15y, & athletics-only, she wouda
legit
10.5-low
21-low
7.75m++
