We are working on our 2015 Doha DL preview. We're talking about the men's 800 and are talking about what big talents Souleiman and Kiprop are. Souleiman has run 1:43 and 13:17. Alan Webb ran 1:43 and 13:10.
Who else in the history of the world has run sub `1:44 and sub 13:20?(Kiprop clearly could but hasn't.) But who else has done it?
Guerrouj never did it, nor did Coe, Cram, Bernard Lagat, etc.
Said Aouita ran 1:43.86 and set WRs in 1500m (3:29.4), 2000m, 3,000m, and 5,000m running 12:58.35.
Maybe the best range of all-time for MD, although I am not sure what Farah & El Guerrojj could run in top shape.
Said Aouita
There was this Moroccan guy - can´t remember his name - who ran 1,43 I think. I also think he was the first who ran sub-13. Damn if I only could remember his name...
I don't think Komen ever ran that fast for an 800.
No way Farah could run 1:43.xx for the 8. He was damn lucky to run 3:28 and that was a miracle race for him.
I'd think El G could run sub 1:44 but that is really fast, especially for a strength based miler.
El G and Lagat could have done it. In fact, almost all gold medalists in the 1500m in all Olympics and World Champs since the mid 1990's were capable of it.
El G's fastest was 1:47.18.
Djdjdjfjfj wrote:
El G and Lagat could have done it. In fact, almost all gold medalists in the 1500m in all Olympics and World Champs since the mid 1990's were capable of it.
Not true.
I think he ran the last 800 in the Olympic 1500 in sub 1:48 or so. If Webb broke 1:44, I'm sure El G could have.
I grabbed the lists from alltime-athletics.com and found only Alan Webb and Said Aouita. If the names were spelled differently in the 2 charts I would've missed them though.
What did Cram and Ovett run for 5000? Pretty sure Cram ran 13:20 ONCE. Ovett ran in the 1987 World Champ 5000 final. Yeah but Aouita, Webb and Suleiman are the only 1:43 runners who moved up that far and ran world class times that i can come up with.
1:43 is still rare. That's around top 10 in the world in an average year.
Steve Ovett very close on both counts
1:44:09
13:20:06
Steve Cram 13:28 and 1:42
Here's all the info from alltime-athletics (lists go down to 1:46:00 and 13:30:00) ...
Name 800m time 5000m time
Saïd Aouita 1:43.86 12:58.39
Alan Webb 1:43.84 13:10.86
Rashid Ramzi 1:44.05 13:10.72
Augustine Choge 1:44.86 12:53.66
Noureddine Morceli 1:44.79 13:03.85
Vénuste Niyongabo 1:45.13 13:03.29
Steve Ovett 1:44.09 13:20.06
Brahim Lahlafi 1:45.44 12:49.28
Rui Silva 1:44.91 13:19.20
John Walker 1:44.92 13:19.28
David Torrence 1:45.14 13:16.53
Berhanu Alemu 1:45.28 13:15.38
Lopez Lomong 1:45.58 13:07.95
Thomas Farrell 1:45.46A 13:15.31
Filbert Bayi 1:45.32 13:18.2
Steve Cram 1:42.88 13:28.58
Nick Willis 1:45.54 13:20.33
Mohamed Yagoub Babiker 1:44.89 13:27.09
José Antonio Redolat 1:45.39 13:23.14
Mohammed Moustaoui 1:45.44 13:22.61
Gert-Jan Liefers 1:45.47 13:22.26
Moses Kibet 1:45.83 13:15.18
Gennaro Di Napoli 1:45.84 13:17.46
Matthew Centrowitz 1:45.86 13:20.06
Juan Carlos Higuero 1:45.87 13:22.68
Samuel Mwera 1:45.28 13:29.14
Simon Doyle 1:45.38 13:28.71
Marcus O'Sullivan 1:45.87 13:27.32
Agreed. So far it's just Said and Webb, with ElG's supposed 1:42.70 as an honorable mention.
Ovett was a blink away - 1:44.09 and 13:20.06
Kiprop will likely do it - 1:43.15, 3:27 and an old 7:42 from 2007. I could see him running just under 13min
Makhloufi is also a solid candidate, if he gets himself back on the track. 1:43.53
Augustine Choge is the only man besides Aouita to run sub 1:45, sub 3:30, sub 7:30, and sub 13. And he did it by a wider margin overall. When he runs a sub 27 he will officially be the GOAT runner 800+.
Here are the people who can say that no one else was faster than them in both the 800m and 5000m :
Couldn't find any 800m PRs for people faster than 12:49
Brahim Lahlafi 1:45.44 12:49.28
Augustine Choge 1:44.86 12:53.66
Said Aouita 1:43.86 12:58.39
Alan Webb 1:43.84 13:10.86
Ayanleh Souleiman 1:43.63 13:17.97
Steve Cram 1:42.88 13:28.58
Couldn't find 5000m PRs for people faster than 1:42.88
Man, David Torrence is well up that list, considering the names around him. I wonder what he'll do in the next few years?
Notice there are very few Kenyans on this list. I would venture to guess the reason for this is because of prize $$$ opportunities and depth of high caliber athletes from their country, they can't afford to risk losing their secured spot on the starting line of the golden league/diamond league 1500m for a particular season. You don't see many Kenyan 1500m guys showing up at Stanford for an early season strength test, but I'm sure that a slew of the sub 3.32 guys over the years could pop off a 13.1X at these well paced Payton Jordan meets (though I am still yet to do so!!)
Times are a great way to get historical reference, but don't always show everything. Ovett was Olympic champ in the 800m, and Commonwealth Games champ in the 5000m (13.2X). I'm sure he couldn't care less about the times he ran both of those days, but both races would have been worthy of much faster times in a Monaco or Doha Diamond League affair.
Along the lines of this thread, I had noticed a similar unique standard - sub 1.46, and top10 NCAA XC. To my recollection, only Lomong and Brian Berryhill have achieved this standard. Did Lassiter do it?
rojo wrote:
We are working on our 2015 Doha DL preview. We're talking about the men's 800 and are talking about what big talents Souleiman and Kiprop are. Souleiman has run 1:43 and 13:17. Alan Webb ran 1:43 and 13:10.
Who else in the history of the world has run sub `1:44 and sub 13:20?(Kiprop clearly could but hasn't.) But who else has done it?
Guerrouj never did it, nor did Coe, Cram, Bernard Lagat, etc.
Wow! Comparabel that the founders of a football (soccer) board try to find some great technically skilled offensive players: " We have heard of guys called Pele and Messi. But who else in history was a great offensive player? Maybe the hand of god can give us some hint"
It seems to be very difficult to find that Aouita, Webb and since a few weeks also Souleiman are the only sub 1:44 and sub 13:20 runners. A few others - probably also Noah Ngeny - could have done it.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Augustine Choge is the only man besides Aouita to run sub 1:45, sub 3:30, sub 7:30, and sub 13. And he did it by a wider margin overall. When he runs a sub 27 he will officially (!!!) be the GOAT runner 800+.
It took you a long time to find another oppertunity to come with this again. Choge he has not done it by a wider margin, which you know, since I have told you (with the necessary stats) on several occasions before.
