8:44.33 WR, 3:31.18 by 17 yr old: Monaco doing TOO much

i agree.

Courtney Frerichs was 22. Chepkoech is 27. 22 year olds straight out of American universities improve by leaps and bounds when they turn pro, start pro-style training, and get into fast fields for the first time. (Look at what Sally Kipyego did!).

Moreover, it is one thing to make a marked improvement to 9:04, about 12 seconds slower than the world record, an improvement that brings you past a bunch of people, but not far beyond anyone in world history, and another thing to drop the world record by 8 seconds and your own best by 16 seconds in the same race, when you are already long past the point at which athletes usually make dramatic improvements. When Jos Hermens is your coach, and the previous wr holder has already been caught, that should tell you all you need to know.

Bad Wigins wrote:

some more Monaco hypotheses:

) creating a "constant tailwind" effect.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Louis+II+Stadium/@43.72748,7.414898,228m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x50a2648034c66ba1!8m2!3d43.7275883!4d7.4154959?hl=en-US

This ⤴is what I've wondered, it also is likely an outdoor version of some of those fast indoor tracks that are popping up these days (Bekele & Rupp did fast times in the off season at various times, faster than outdoors). If you look at Rieti, something is dodgy about that track too.

El Keniano wrote:

How much was Courtney Frerich’s improvement at the worlds last year?

15.32 seconds improvement for Frerichs at Worlds.

discus.

Did anyone read the article in which Beatrice tripled at the Police Championships running 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 hurdles (winning all 3). Thats why her form is good over the barriers...she dabbles in the long hurdles.

Now I feel she's just an oustanding elite flat 1500m-5000m runner who finally took up the steeple and Courtney training increase is the result of her improvement.

inch here, meter there wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

but I'm starting to suspect there is something fishy with this track. I think a serious investigation ia necessary.

Multi-lap races = PB's and SB's galore

Straightaway races = nothing

hmmmmmm...

One wind affects those races if it’s a headwind just a few hundredths

And two Noah Lyles?

VIPAM wrote:

Did anyone read the article in which Beatrice tripled at the Police Championships running 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 hurdles (winning all 3). Thats why her form is good over the barriers...she dabbles in the long hurdles.

Now I feel she's just an oustanding elite flat 1500m-5000m runner who finally took up the steeple and Courtney training increase is the result of her improvement.

Exactly.

Why? At altitude 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 Hurdles is talent in 2 days with 3 wins. Thats just elite talent that moved from the roads and found her right distances and prpper training for her ability between 1500m-5000m, her event wasnt the 10000m roads for which she started.

Bad Wigins wrote:

some more Monaco hypotheses:

) tilt-rotor: track is constructed on a giant tilted platform that rotates so slowly nobody can detect it, but fast enough so the lead runners are always going slightly downhill.

) cyclone: Stade Louis II is oriented WSW to ENE, with heavy stands on three sides which far overarch the track on the north and east sides, but open on the WSW side. This channels the prevailing west wind into the stadium where it is trapped by the south and east stands and directed counter-clockwise around the track, creating a "constant tailwind" effect.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Louis+II+Stadium/@43.72748,7.414898,228m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x50a2648034c66ba1!8m2!3d43.7275883!4d7.4154959?hl=en-US

Hahahahahahahahaahahaaa

El Keniano wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

Did anyone read the article in which Beatrice tripled at the Police Championships running 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 hurdles (winning all 3). Thats why her form is good over the barriers...she dabbles in the long hurdles.

Now I feel she's just an oustanding elite flat 1500m-5000m runner who finally took up the steeple and Courtney training increase is the result of her improvement.

Exactly.

As I said in another thread, Emma Coburn's flat pb is only 8:48. That is poor. She converts that to a 9:02 3k steeple. So that's 14 seconds difference.

Obiri has run 8:20. Plus 14s she runs 8:34 for 3k steeple. That's the kind of ceiling we should be looking at in this event.

VIPAM wrote:

Did anyone read the article in which Beatrice tripled at the Police Championships running 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 hurdles (winning all 3). Thats why her form is good over the barriers...she dabbles in the long hurdles.

Now I feel she's just an oustanding elite flat 1500m-5000m runner who finally took up the steeple and Courtney training increase is the result of her improvement.

Cheokoech is not even an "A" Kenyan at the 1500-5000. Her PRs put her in "B" Kenyan status, although she would be an "A" runner in every other country but Ethiopia. I think this shows what a "B" Kenyan woman can do if they take a stab at the steeple.

4:02.12 indoors isnt A stayus are uou serious? A 4:02 runner has a legitimate shot at making any team in any country providing its just their personal best and not their lifetme best. Who to say she wont -OR- can't run 3:58 soon with some focus on the 1500m?

vivalarepublica wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

Did anyone read the article in which Beatrice tripled at the Police Championships running 10 flat steeple, 4:07 1500m, and 60.7 400 hurdles (winning all 3). Thats why her form is good over the barriers...she dabbles in the long hurdles.

Now I feel she's just an oustanding elite flat 1500m-5000m runner who finally took up the steeple and Courtney training increase is the result of her improvement.

Cheokoech is not even an "A" Kenyan at the 1500-5000. Her PRs put her in "B" Kenyan status, although she would be an "A" runner in every other country but Ethiopia. I think this shows what a "B" Kenyan woman can do if they take a stab at the steeple.

....

4:02.12 indoors isnt A stayus are uou serious? A 4:02 runner has a legitimate shot at making any team in any country providing its just their personal best and not their lifetme best. Who to say she wont -OR- can't run 3:58 soon with some focus on the 1500m?

Bad Wigins wrote:

some more Monaco hypotheses:

1) tilt-rotor: track is constructed on a giant tilted platform that rotates so slowly nobody can detect it, but fast enough so the lead runners are always going slightly downhill.

2) cyclone: Stade Louis II is oriented WSW to ENE, with heavy stands on three sides which far overarch the track on the north and east sides, but open on the WSW side. This channels the prevailing west wind into the stadium where it is trapped by the south and east stands and directed counter-clockwise around the track, creating a "constant tailwind" effect.

Finaly some well thought out ideas from The Bad. 1) and 2) in fact might both be correct.

I always knew he is capable to do such investigations.

VIPAM wrote:

4:02.12 indoors isnt A stayus are uou serious? A 4:02 runner has a legitimate shot at making any team in any country providing its just their personal best and not their lifetme best. Who to say she wont -OR- can't run 3:58 soon with some focus on the 1500m?

Well, to be fair, it is the Kenyan indoor record, but very few top level Kenyans seem to run indoors. She does sit at 13th on the Kenyan all time outdoor list 1500, 19th at 5000, and 8th at the less common 3000. Impressive, but not top level.

Fact of the matter is that she never qualified for a global champs in anything but the steeple until earlier this year, and those were lesser championships (World indoors, Commonwealth).

Thats because shecstsrted as a road racer and thst was her seeet spot. Then she never really focused on one event until 3 years ago. Heck recently she just completed a hat trick at the police championship running 400 hurdles, 1500m, and steeple. The more she focused her training on one or two events then her talent began to show.

She's run 4:03-4:04 in a bunch of attempts, two at some altitude in Nairobi, 8:28, and 14:38, so she's six seconds slower than Jenny Simpson at 1500m, 1 second faster at 3,000 meters, 16 seconds faster at 5000m--but Simpson didn't run a lot of these over the past seven years, and 28 seconds faster at the steeple. Something doesn't add up.

There's a tail wind down the back straight but no head wind up the home straight. Sometimes Rieti was like this. Though when Ovett ran 3:30.77 it was the opposite.

I think pretty much everyone predicted that.