Ryan Hall DNFs at LA. Will he ever run a good marathon again?

oh c'mon wrote:

shrunken shrink wrote:

Best concise and compassionate analysis of Hall that I've seen. Thanks for posting. If this message board had ways of rewarding people for saying useful, humorous, and/or intelligent things, I would reward your post.

Even more concise: There's almost no evidence that he knows how to race, or that he cares. The one possible exception was 2008 trials, where he bided his time for the first half. Everything else as a pro has always been about time, not taking into account field, conditions, course, etc., and running with the goal of placing as high as possible.

Agreed. Ryan has no tactics, he front runs apparently regardless of his fitness, the course or weather and we have seen the results. To be clear, I am not anti-Christian, I am simply 1) concerned that young runners of faith will look up to Ryan and try to emulate his "faith based" running 2) I seriously believe that in Ryan's case his overly zealous brand of Christianity has led him to do unwise things in regards to racing and training.

If kids want a Christian running idol to emulate look to Meb. Great guy, devout Christian and smart racer / trainer. My hypothesis on Ryan's latest failure is that he saw Meb (a devout Christian) run badly at NYC 2013 (2:20+) and then turn around and win Boston 2014 by basically front running. Ryan probably attributed this to "God's Will" not Meb's consistent hard work. He thought he could do the same on a hot day without great fitness. He was wrong. He needs serious mental health help if he is ever to race well again.

Does he have the WR for the most number of DNFs? I don't understand how a professional can DNF multiple times? I'd imagine that one DNF would imprint the "never again" mentality.

To be fair, "God" was coaching Ryan when he ran 2:04 at Boston in 2011. And Hall has since moved on to Canova and, more recently, Daniels. Magness is probably next.

Hard to believe that the "god is my coach" plan did not work. News flash ryan that voice in your head is just you. If praying for fitness worked, the pope could run 1:59:00.

very true. And what did he do last fall? I know he finished Boston last year in 2:17, and he looked like a step in the right direction then I didn't hear anything from him in the fall. Did he DNF somewhere, have to turn down a race cuz he got injured in training for the umpteenth time, what?

Statement from Ray Flynn after the race:

“I haven’t spoken with him yet. He texted me and told me that he’s OK. I thought he was doing really well at the beginning of the race and not really sure what happened. It was hot out there. The pace was pretty hot. I’m sorry it didn’t go the way he wanted. I’m sure he’s disappointed and I hope he can get back on track.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/endurance/post/_/id/2631/la-marathon-notebook-kenyans-sweep-joel-ward-wins-u-s-title-ryan-hall-drops-out

The way he practices his religion and how vocal he is about it makes him come off as having a serious obsessive compulsive disorder. The religion thing may just be an outlet for some kind of mental issues.

anacondarunner wrote:

It's ridiculous to call Hall's 4-5 year run at the top of American marathoning a "fluke." His performances at London (2007, 2008), Boston (2009, 2010, 2011), the Olympic trials (2007, 2012), Beijing (2008), and even the Houston half (2007) were no joke. All good things must come to an end, I guess.

^Agree.

I can understand how fans/followers of this event might be hopeful for RH to do well, and thus be disappointed when he does not do well (and -- specific to today's race -- be puzzled about his race strategy), but the resentment of and anger toward him seems odd, even by the standards of LRC. If someone read these RH threads without knowing anything about his career, they would think that he must have run one good marathon once upon a time, and then spent the next several years as a perpetual DNF.

Not that it will make any difference, but we might as well include his actual marathon career. In a roughly 5 year period from April 2007 to January 2012, in his first 10 marathon starts, Hall did this:

2007 London 2:08:24 (7th); NYC USOT 2:09:02 (1st)

2008 London 2:06:17 (5th); Beijing OG 2:12:33 (10th)

2009 Boston 2:09:40 (3rd); NYC 2:10:36 (4th)

2010 Boston 2:08:41 (4th)

2011 Boston 2:04:58 (4th); Chicago 2:08:04 (5th)

2012 Houston USOT 2:09:30 (2nd)

= 2:08:46.5 average. Eight top-5 finishes.

Whether one likes him or not (for whatever reason(s)), that is excellent running, and a marathon career that most runners would be happy to have.

Then there is the second phase of RH's marathon career:

2012 London OG DNF

2014 Boston 2:17:50 (20th)

2015 Los Angeles DNF

I would be curious to know what he was thinking today when he went out at that pace. And I will be curious to see if he runs any other marathons between now and the USOT. Absent some serious injury, I would expect him to be on the starting line for the OT, and -- even though at that point he will be 4 years removed from his last quality marathon (assuming he does not run one later this year) -- I would not be surprised if he made the Olympic team. I state that not because I am a fan of RH, but because unexpected things can happen at the OT: many athletes tend to over-prepare and in the pressure of the event thus under-perform, and given how thin USA's marathon ranks are, it may not take an incredible time to make the team. He has as much chance as anyone (which does not mean I would pick him to make the team...).

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote: Ironically there are 4 churches within 3 blocks of where he dropped.

What is "ironic" about this? It is perhaps coincidental as related to your first point, but it is not ironic in the least.

Is there a highlights reel that shows him dropping out anywhere? I watched the whole thing on the live feed but I want to see him tear off his bib and hurl it to the ground like a three-year-old again.

And again.

And again.

I'd also like to see if he mouths a blasphemy or not.

I know this isn't football but there must be a replay somewhere.

That's what is not being mentioned enough in this thread. He didn't just dnf. He pulled up and pitched a little fit AS SOON AS HE WAS PASSED BY ANOTHER AMERICAN.

The Bayman wrote:

I think the problem with Hall is that after all these DNFs and what seems like years since he's finished his last marathon or won a high profile race, he's okay with a DNF. He's used to it now, so if he's feeling discomfort for killing the first mile or 5k, he thinks he's hurt something.

op.

I'm a total hobby jogger and can't relate to an elite in any way, but I wonder if there's something to this. I 've found that quitting can become a habit, and I wonder if that's where he is. Feel bad early on? Just drop out, no big deal.

frogs wrote:

Is there a highlights reel that shows him dropping out anywhere? I watched the whole thing on the live feed but I want to see him tear off his bib and hurl it to the ground like a three-year-old again.

And again.

And again.

I'd also like to see if he mouths a blasphemy or not.

I know this isn't football but there must be a replay somewhere.

That's what is not being mentioned enough in this thread. He didn't just dnf. He pulled up and pitched a little fit AS SOON AS HE WAS PASSED BY ANOTHER AMERICAN.

I too want a replay. Guys find one please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM SOOO EMBARRASSED.

Sara Hall wrote:

I AM SOOO EMBARRASSED.

I strongly doubt that you are the real Sara Hall

He's been running at a very high level since 1999! That is 15 years. Most people can only do something with 100% commitment for about 7 to 10 years MAX!

He needs a better advisor. After that 7-10 years if things are starting to fall apart there is a reason for that and it's time to shift. Webb did it too late in moving to triathlon. Hall needs a new challenge. His brain is tired of the same old same old.

The Mebs and Lagats of this world are not normal. Even being married more than 7-10 years is not normal!

agc5k wrote:

Sara Hall wrote:

I AM SOOO EMBARRASSED.

I strongly doubt that you are the real Sara Hall

Jerk!

You can be a committed Christian, respect Ryan Hall's faith, and still think he has really made a mess of his career. I know because I fall in that category.

My take is that Hall has been spiritually arrogant for thinking that he has a straight pipeline to God regarding recieving spiritual insights about training, racing etc. Many mature Christians believe that God works through other people and usually through those other's vocations. Alberto Salazar and Jerry Shumacher, for instance, have the vocation of running coach. Hall is a runner But unfortunately he wants special treatment rather than just getting a coach and doing what the coach says, like 95% of successful runners do. Hopefully, he will become humble enough to submit himself to a human authority before he pisses away the rest of his career but I suspect it is too late.

Hasn't he already done that, though? First with Canova and now with Daniels. (Although we haven't heard much about his partnership with Daniels since it was announced last September.) "God" isn't his coach anymore.

So many people keep commenting that his opening pace was WR pace or an opening mile was 4:41 (or something like that). But realize, the opening 3 miles are VERY downhill. Here's the elevation profile:

http://www.runnersworld.com/sites/default/files/la.png