forreal2 wrote:
Sounds like a smart kid, not buying the Nike Hype. Having to run as a "club" rather than a HS makes NXN contrived to me. Hopefully Maton can earn some individual glory at FLN.
You understand that they have to run as clubs because many states do not allow high school teams to compete for their schools after the state meets, right?
newname wrote:
A XC National Championship meet (for teams AND individuals) would have to be run like the NCAA meet and have 200-300 people in it.
If you can't figure out why this isn't feasible, nobody can help you.
Hint: the NCAA meet has a wide range of abilities. From guys who can run 13:20 all the way to probably 14:45. They achieve this by having the meet at a BIG, wide-open venue and the race is 10k long.
Why isn't this feasible? I've competed in a 4k race with over 500 athletes, where people were running everywhere from 13 to over 20 minutes (NYC cross country for ya). A little crowded, but perfectly fine.
The real shame here is that Maton is forced to choose. If Nike and Foot Locker can't grow up and work something out, it should at least be possible for athletes to run both meets. Given the absurdity of the current system, I think that Maton made the right decision. His team would be a longshot for the NXN championship, and he has a legit shot at Foot Locker, which is still the better meet for elite individuals. I'm also impressed by his maturity in setting everything straight with his coaches and teammates long before the season started.
"newname" is an idiot. NXN runs about 198 kids in their races and NCAA runs about 215. The difference is negligible.
McFatty wrote:
"newname" is an idiot. NXN runs about 198 kids in their races and NCAA runs about 215. The difference is negligible.
Furthermore, couldn't NXN do exactly what they're doing now (no clue the actual numbers, but whatever it is) and just add the 30 individuals or thereabouts that Foot Lockers takes?
If it's possible to run the team meet it's certainly possible to add a small percentage of participants.
You Know Me wrote:
couldn't NXN do exactly what they're doing now (no clue the actual numbers, but whatever it is) and just add the 30 individuals or thereabouts that Foot Lockers takes?
But it's not working for them.
If it's possible to run the team meet it's certainly possible to add a small percentage of participants.
Top runners prefer having their own race, not being a small and unimportant part of a team event.
They've been trying to wrote:
But it's not working for them.
...What isn't working for them? They haven't allowed individual competitors yet.
They've been trying to wrote:Top runners prefer having their own race, not being a small and unimportant part of a team event.
So Bekele is crazy for participating in the World XC championships all the time.
Sorry, but top runners I know are a LARGE and IMPORTANT part of this TEAM SPORT. You're just wrong, man.
devinePDX wrote:
If you read the article, you wouldn't be posting about "team" or "selfishness" or "abandoning," because you would see that Maton did what every talented HS runner in the country should do: he sat down with his coaches months ago and developed a plan to accomplish his goals, some of which dovetailed with the team, and some of which have him running in China in a Team USA singlet in February. You would also see that Maton states clearly that if he could do both, he would, but he can't. His team knew that a year ago, they've trained and raced accordingly.
I agree with you that he did what he should have done and clearly communicated this upfront with his teammates and coaches. In the end, that is what really matters. This is not criticism of Maton, but if it was me (and I know it isn't) I would absolutely be running with my team. I don't see a correlation between making the USA team and choosing footlocker or NXN. Footlocker is going to be the better individual race, but Tanner Anderson is running as well as anyone, so it's not like there won't be competition at NXN.
I don't fault Maton for trying to take care of unfinished business at Footlocker. His competitiveness, and desire to seek out the best competition, is why he is as accomplished as he is. Different people will have different perspectives on which race is preferable, but all that shows is there are different ways to weigh the positives and negatives of footlocker vs. NXN when you're on a top team.
The way I would weigh them, NXN would come out on top, but if those actually involved at Summit come to a different conclusion, they are the ones that are important. I'd sure love to see what Summit can do, but Maton vs. the footlocker field should be just as exciting. The fact Summit has a chance to qualify without their #1 is a testament to the quality of their team. Looking forward to seeing what they accomplish on Saturday and how Maton does in the weeks ahead.
Just throwing my thoughts out there.
Myself and I would think most folks I ran with in High school would have been pretty adamant that Maton run where the best runners were. Sometimes being a team means the many support the one. No way would I have wanted Maton to miss out on a once in a lifetime chance, and the fact it was all decided in June means no point in talking about it.
That said, Footlocker this year is going to be amazing. Tanner I think is the one who will always be wondering what could have been, not Maton choosing footlocker.
butt... wrote:
They haven't allowed individual competitors yet.
Oh really.
So Bekele is crazy for participating in the World XC championships all the time.
Bekele runs for his high school?
No, he represents Ethiopia, much like the FLN setup of N, MW, S and W.
They've been trying to wrote:
You Know Me wrote:couldn't NXN do exactly what they're doing now (no clue the actual numbers, but whatever it is) and just add the 30 individuals or thereabouts that Foot Lockers takes?
But it's not working for them.
If it's possible to run the team meet it's certainly possible to add a small percentage of participants.
Top runners prefer having their own race, not being a small and unimportant part of a team event.
This is so dumb. In its current set up, individuals usually prefer FL, but if the powers that be could get their shit together, how could anybody argue that it wouldn't be a better event?
For the record, I'm all for the kid choosing FL, but I'm sure he would rather not have to make the choice.
This is the best trolling I've ever done. The devil made me do it. Thank you all for making this a success.
I'm rooting for Maton at FL! Likewise, I wish his team the best in their bid to qualify for NXN.
He wants to beat Grant Fisher and be the FL national champion and I doubt there is more to it then that.
Nobody from Oregon has ever won the FL championship either.
Summit is a factory they will have another NXN style team next year as well.
Good luck Matthew
Footlocker and Nike work together in business to sell shoes. Both companies are very generous to host two classy national championship events. Why they have gone this long without coordinating these events to the benefit of the kids involved and not force some stars from the West to be put in the uncomfortable position of having to choose between the two races is beyond me. It is a disappointing situation for the involved athletes and fans alike.
You have to realize that he has almost certainly told them about the decision to go to footlocker way ahead of time. I'm also sure he asked his coaches which one was in his best interests. Every coach would say footlocker because the competition is better. No coach would want to curtail the aspirations of a talent like Maton.
I've never known the McLatchies to be dumb or selfish. Believe me, what Mr. Maton is doing has been well thought out.
So Bekele is crazy for participating in the World XC championships all the time.
Bekele runs for his high school?
No, he represents Ethiopia, much like the FLN setup of N, MW, S and W.[/quote]
No, he runs for his country. Ethiopia is his TEAM. The're all from the same nation. Not from the same generalized part of a country. Just like a high school team is all from the same school. And they're proud of that, just as Bekele is proud to represent Ethiopia. No one is proud to say "Oh, Boy! I'm from the Southwest!". Sure it's an accomplishment to make it from a region to the national meet, but you aren't proud because you are from that region.
You said "Top runners prefer having their own race, not being a small and unimportant part of a team event."
And I gave you a counterpoint using the best XC runner ever. With your logic, Bekele would gather only the top runners in the world for a meet and not participate in the World XC Championships.
He told his coaches and his team about his plans well in advance, the plans that are best for him. Why should he be punished because his school has a much better team than most of the other top runners in the nation?
butt... wrote:
No one is proud to say "Oh, Boy! I'm from the Southwest!".
wtf.......... wrote:
butt... wrote:No one is proud to say "Oh, Boy! I'm from the Southwest!".
Yup. On the other hand, people are proud to be from their High School. People are proud to be representing their high school. Follow?
McFatty wrote:
"newname" is an idiot. NXN runs about 198 kids in their races and NCAA runs about 215. The difference is negligible.
Reread what I wrote. How would you fold all the individuals that go to FL into the field now and have it grow? I am assuming that you think that all the top teams that attend NXN NOW should still be going? I assume that you would want all the nation's best that go to FL NOW to also be running?
The NCAA field is not all decided by the District Meet, it is decided by a highly selective committee. So, the point is that right now NXN sorts out most (but not all) of the nation's best teams and FL sorts out most (but not all) of the nation's best individuals. Combine the two fields and you have MORE runners on a 5k course. Too many.
Some great runners don't go to FL for different reasons. Some good teams don't go to NXN. If there was an all-in meet probably everybody under 15:30, and every good team would try to make it.
I guess you could limit the field to 16-20 teams and 48 or 64 individuals (12 or 16 per region) and then you would come up with your 160-204 runners. I just don't think it would be a "real" individual national championship like FL if you have to wade through all those runners, whether you are at the front or the middle.
You're free to feel differently, that's what makes the world go 'round. I don't think you are an idiot for thinking that.
A while back HS'ers had track post-season meets like the Keebler Invitational and the Golden West ot go to and this is where the best raced people from far away. Now we have the NB Nationals indoor and outdoor and the Keebler meet is no more and the Golden West is a shadow of its former self. Things change and maybe these XC meets will have a different emphasis in the future.
When I ran FL it was even more selective. It only allowed 32 boys and 32 girls. Things change over time, but I was still not an idiot.
