Oh so close!! Donavan Brazier just misses the AR - 1:45.11. Boris Berian races with GUTS.

Brazier doesn't agree.

You are making no sense at all. Admit you are out of your element here.

Didn't the last WC 5000m open at 15:00 pace?

actual 800 runner wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Brazier doesn't agree.

You are making no sense at all. Admit you are out of your element here.

Makes perfect sense. Despite all of your words, Brazier and everyone else in the race went out more conservatively and all finished above Berian.

Again, no one on here cares he lead the race. There was a rabbit and he went out fast. It was TOO fast to run the first 400.

I said in the last post 51.8-52.2. How about just 51.2...one sec slower than he ran.

Stop acting like the only way elite 800 guys run races is balls out from the gun. Berians a stud, world indoor champ. No one disputes that. But don’t tell me a 50.2-59.9 split day is a better day than a 51.2-55.9 day.

The second best 800 runner on planet earth RIGHT NOW (who also likes to go out fast)...went out in 51 and ran the second fastest American time of all time on a track that really isn’t all that fast compared to some others.

Just because you were good at the 800 doesn’t mean you validate berians 50.2. Which was the point of my original post. 1:47 gets him into USAs. You know, the thing he won last time?? So don’t pretend like 1:50 was the result he wanted.

Not even REALLY bashing him too bad here. He could have thought he was running 51 point and just overcooked it a bit. He hasn’t raced in a long time. But 50.2 was too fast. And didn’t teach him much of anything

Actual 800 Runner definitely wore a speedsuit in high school

ex-runner wrote:

Makes perfect sense. Despite all of your words, Brazier and everyone else in the race went out more conservatively and all finished above Berian.

You dimwit, can you not read?

YES, OF COURSE HE COULD HAVE RUN 1:49 OR 1:48 IN THE PERFECT "EX-RUNNER" PACED RACE. Maybe he could have even picked up a couple of sub-sub-elite guys and come 4th or 5th! Wow! (No offense to the guys, but beating them just isn't on a world champ/1:43 guy's to-do list.)

That point is that running 54/54 or even 52/55 would be a total waste of time, compared to a nice 25/25/28-->1:18 roll.

In February you love to have a runner thinking, wow I hit that perfectly for the first 6, I just need to do the race-specific work to put together the whole race. Listen: hitting a 600 on goal 800 schedule in the early season is GREAT.

What is NOT great is jogging a lap, probably STILL dying (you don't get this because you have no idea how a 400/800 runner functions) an basically wasting the trip. Berian can jog a 52 any day of the weak. Running goal pace and hanging on into the shutdown is a much better use of the race opportunity.

Celde wrote:

Didn't the last WC 5000m open at 15:00 pace?

Ha.

I haven't seen a WC 800 open in 52 for a while.

Regardless, "how fast can I close after a 52-point?" is just not an interesting question to a runner like Berian and his coaches. Answering it certainly isn't a good use of the race opportunity.

Again, for the 5th time. Why is there seemingly nothing in between 50.2 and 52+ with your argument. You act like he couldn’t have gone out in 50.8, or 51.1 and still be in/at the lead and have an alright last lap. 25.0-26.0-27.0-28.0 still gets him to 600 at the same split (actually faster), he doesn’t get dead last on national TV, shows EXACTLY why type of fitness he is in, is a rust buster for himself, and can springboard toward the outdoor season.

The dude went out a little bit too fast. 3/4 if a second. Totally cratered the last 250. Got dead last by a good margin.

If he wanted to time trial a 6...be the rabbit. Get paid more.

You guys are acting like it’s impossible that he went out too fast, and made a mistake in his first race in a year+. It’s definitely possible he misjudged himself a bit.

Geoffys spicy buffalo tofu wrote:

Boris logic: I’m not in great shape cause I hurt my Achilles a year ago and haven’t raced. How can I continue to earn less money, break up training, and help other Americans? Not actually rabbit a race and finish dead last on national television.

You just don't get it.

If an athlete can get in a race like this, unless they are a Galen Rupp level above-the-field type, they are going to be running it. This is their livelihood: whatever appearance cash there might have been, more importantly a contract that surely says you need to race X number of high-profile meets, and most importantly still getting into more races (which is tougher after a year off and no recent times on the books).

Who is going to get invited to more races and put their sponsor's name out there harder? The guy who runs 52/55 to place 5th ahead of someone you never heard of in a 1:47/1:48? Or the guy who took it to the field on American Record pace, putting himself out there so hard he exploded? What Berian did this weekend is better visibility (and a better step toward a meaningful result) than jogging through a conservative race and everyone saying "oh he's in 1:48 shape." Right now you don't know what shape he's in, except that it's not AR shape. Well, OK, neither is anyone else in the US except Brazier. That doesn't hurt Berian's image much.

Think a bit.

I’ve thought plenty about this. You’re the one that isn’t addressing any points that are made. You recycle the same “52-55” garbage a dozen times.

Sarah bowman is a world champs qualifier. She’s in a very similar situation to Berian. She rabbitted a race. Got in “race pace effort” in an over distance race and got out of there helping Jenny Simpson win and Emma Coburn be on tv for her sponsors.

So Berian could have been the rabbit. For 600m. At an overdistance pace (800m). Helped DB run the AR. Get a bonus from the meet. Get in the work he was looking for, doesn’t finish dead last, best of ALL involved.

It’s funny how you think a man who is a world champion wouldn’t get a little pissed/upset/bummed/embarrassed about his first race since the Olympic final being dead last?

I like how you use 400m sprinters as an example of coming out and running way off pace if they’re not in shape. 23/25 for a 44 second guy...no, u just don’t go to the meet.

Counter argument is when do you ever see an elite 5k runner enter a 5k when not ready, run 4000 meters on PR pace and then run a 3:30 last 1000.

Can’t wait to see Paul Chelimo coming back from an injury run 10:20 thru 4k and run a 3:30 for his last K and finish at 13:50. And then hear everyone on this board say “oh my god, what guts. He was running 12:55 pace in his first race back...”

No. No one would say that. He would either rabbit the race and drop out, enter a lower key meet, or do a hard workout.

Don’t use dumba$$ examples if you don’t wanna be proven totally wrong.

Wow, aside from the personal insults and you obviously posting under two unregistered handles to back your own argument, you haven't really made any point whatsoever.

If he intended to run a 600m time trial then I have a few questions:

1. Why did he run so slow (1:18)?

2. Why did he finish the race?

3. Why didn't he enter a 600m rather than an 800m?

The truth is that he went off too hard, harder than Brazier who is an athlete of similar quality.

If he ran 51 then 55 for a second place 1:46 then that's a great confidence builder. Nobody wants to crash and burn in their first race, especially against genuine US rivals.

Why didn't he go out in 48 or 49 if there are no negatives to going out as hard as possible? 800m races outdoors have opened that fast in the past.

He misjudged his fitness. Period. He even says so in his interview.

wow is right.....all my comments got deleted yet again....man you have got to love rekrunner he is officially the most annoying person on LR

and as it appears you are a troll but what the hell why not answer your childish questions, only to have my comment deleted 3 min after i submit it.....ok ready mister 2:06? here we go

1). 1:18 is slow? this again proves you have no idea about an 800m. 1:18 for the most part is 1:44 even pace....i know that is too much for your feeble mind to understand but maybe one day you will see

if you again had half a brain and saw his splits were 25-25-28, you can see he was DYING on his way to 600m. he was prob hoping a 1:16 high but with only 3 months of training he isnt THERE YET...but thats why you do TIME TRIALS.....you dont do a 600 time trial and go out in 48/49 unless you are planning on running 1:14, you know the WR....when you do a mile time trial do you run your first 400 in 59? when your PR is 4:45? only an PRO like you would do something like that.

2). why did he finish? cause he wasnt the "rabbit". i believe there clauses that if you DNF you dont get paid. so he had to finish, is this hard to figure out? even if thats not the case and he was told by his coach do the 600 TT and jog it in, it will be good for you....

3). why didnt he enter a 600m? well f*cktard maybe cause there wasnt one at the NBIGP...wow that was insane!!!! until i hear that brazier didnt ask him to come pace through 600m then i wont stop defending boris.

last...what is your 600m PR? since 1:18 is sooooooo slow

besides WR 800's i would love to see just how many 600m splits are hit in 1:18 since its soooo f*cking slow

since you seem to as lazy as rekrunner (maybe you guys are the same person?) i did some work for you, annoyingly it will just be deleted in 5 min

1 USADonavan Brazier United States 1:45.11

24.95 - Pl: 3, 50.68, 25.74 - Pl: 3, 1:18.16, 27.48 - Pl: 1 1:45.11, 26.95 - Pl: 1

2 GERMarc Reuther Germany 1:46.78

25.83 - Pl: 6, 52.29, 26.46 - Pl: 6, 1:19.36, 27.08 - Pl: 3 1:46.78, 27.43 - Pl: 2

3 KENEdward Kemboi Kenya 1:47.96

25.33 - Pl: 4, 52.06, 26.73 - Pl: 5, 1:20.23, 28.18 - Pl: 5 1:47.96, 27.74 - Pl: 3

4 PURWesley Vázquez Puerto Rico 1:48.37

25.89 - Pl: 7, 52.40, 26.52 - Pl: 7, 1:20.30, 27.90 - Pl: 6 1:48.37, 28.07 - Pl: 4

5 GHAAlex Amankwah Ghana 1:49.26

25.62 - Pl: 5, 52.01, 26.39 - Pl: 4, 1:20.11, 28.10 - Pl: 4 1:49.26, 29.16 - Pl: 5

6 USACasimir Loxsom United States 1:49.29

26.02 - Pl: 8, 52.53, 26.51 - Pl: 8, 1:20.44, 27.92 - Pl: 7 1:49.29, 28.86 - Pl: 6

7 USABoris Berian United States 1:50.17

24.54 - Pl: 2, 50.28, 25.75 - Pl: 2, 1:18.32, 28.04 - Pl: 2 1:50.17, 31.86 - Pl: 7

9 JAMSadiki White Jamaica

24.26 - Pl: 1, 49.94, 25.68

first 200M

1 paid rabbit : 24.26

2 boris : 24.54

3 brazier : 24.95

4 kemboi : 25.33

5 ghana : 25.62

6 germany : 25.83

7 vasquez : 25.89

8 Loxsom : 26.02

400m

1 paid rabit : 49.94, 25.68

2 boris : 50.28, 25.75

3 brazier : 50.68, 25.74

4 ghana : 52.01, 26.39

5 kemboi : 52.06, 26.73

6 germany : 52.29, 26.46

7 vasquez : 52.40, 26.52

8 loxsom : 52.53, 26.51

600m (where according to the LR write up, brazier took the lead)

1 brazier : 1:18.16, 27.48

2 boris : 1:18.32, 28.04

3 germany : 1:19.36, 27.08

4 ghana : 1:20.11, 28.10

5 kemboi : 1:20.23, 28.18

6 vasquez : 1:20.30, 27.90

7 loxsom : 1:20.44, 27.92

final

1 brazier : 1:45.11, 26.95

2 germany : 1:46.78, 27.43

3 kemboi : 1:47.96, 27.74

4 vasquez : 1:48.37, 28.07

5 ghana : 1:49.26, 29.16

6 loxsom : 1:49.29, 28.86

7 boris : 1:50.17, 31.86

yup looks to me that paid rabbit was for the first 400, then boris tried to take it to 600. until i see the vid all i can do is guess on the scenario. boris starts tying up, brazier takes too long to pass him and thus the 27.48 at the bell. if he could have done like the german dude and rolled a 27.08 or so he would have been 1:17.76 (which i know is soooo slow, its barely faster than pedestrian 1:18!!!) and finished with 1:44.71.

whatever what do i know, boris is just some washed up chump, no way would he fly to boston to just TT and help brazier, i mean after not racing in over a year not like he is low on money im sure

Really embarrassing

Haha nice man. Literally addressing none of the points. As usual.

he was at the meet cause he is a new balance sponsored athlete you boob. Not because of these crazy reasons you keep stirring up. Very few American NB athletes were not at this meet. Martinez is hurt cause she scratched millrose. Very few others.

U think this meet wouldn’t let him rabbit the damn race if his coach asked? He’d be one of the best rabbits in the world. Instead of getting a guy who could run 400 indoors in 49 high-50low they’d get Boris Berian.

And to use your logic, until I hear Berian say “I came here to run an all out 600 and jog it in to get 600m at race pace, I’ll believe he just messed up a bit.

1:18 even split is 52.0. Why would u bring up even splits when you’ve been bashing people saying he went out too fast in the first place??

Also, I’ll have you know, I have broken two on MULTIPLE occasions. They’re all hand timed but I legit split 1:58.0 INDOORS. So I’m much much much better than a 2:06

Yes a 1:18 time trial 600m as you are stating it, is slow.

We would run 1:19 in training and nobody could do anything like 1:43.

Berian went off too fast because he didn't know what shape he was in and he said it himself in his interview.

He also said he likes running from the front and will always take it out hard from the front no matter what shape he is in.

That translates to me as naive and stupid.

Quoted cause this guy knows what he is talking about.

It’s ok considering u didn’t see the race...no ones even bashing Berian. We all just said he made a mistake.

This all started cause rojo acted like chesereks first race was a hohum day and Berian was the second coming of Daniel komen.

We disagreed.

U took offense cause u think I ran 2:06...I ran AT LEAST two of those in a row tho once or twice.

That he managed to hang on to 600m in 1:18 indicates that he absolutely did the right thing here. Since this wasn't nationals or worlds, placing as high as possible was not particularly important. This was a rust buster and he wanted to go close to pr race pace as long as possible. 600m indoors in 1:18 does that. It prepares him for what he needs to do down the road when he is in shape. Race specific training, not training at significantly slower than goal race pace. He wants to get to the point where that 50/28 or, better yet, 49.5/26, is comfortable and he's got to run them to get there.