Human Torch wrote:
If he were my son, I'd be telling him to run with his team. And I went to Footlocker myself and prefer it greatly to NXN.
Yeah, you probably were top 5 at NXN and treated like a god and then finished in the last 3-4 at FL when you got to the real national championship race.
Flagpole wrote:
For a kid with the 3rd fastest time in the country, he gets to be a little selfish. He has bigger fish to fry than anything that can happen with his high school team (even though that's a pretty good team). Sorry, but team is NOT always first. Cross country is an individual sport first. It's nice if you can actually have a decent team too, but that isn't always in the cards, and if you have a super star who is EONS better than the rest, you need to do all you can to support that super star.
It's like if you had a super genius in your math class filled with average students. Not fair to hold that kid back, so you do EXTRA and DIFFERENT for him. Maton has earned that right, and nobody knows his situation or his team's situation better than he and his coaches, so I don't see how anyone here can vilify.
+1 this guy nailed it
I know why wrote:
Human Torch wrote:If he were my son, I'd be telling him to run with his team. And I went to Footlocker myself and prefer it greatly to NXN.
Yeah, you probably were top 5 at NXN and treated like a god and then finished in the last 3-4 at FL when you got to the real national championship race.
FWIW, no one who ran both Footlocker and NXN would have a high school aged son, so let's all speculate!
TheGarbageDisposal wrote:
+1. Footlocker is where the real national championship is.
False. Foot Locker is the real individual national championship, NXN is the real team championship. They are different types of events at this point and the debate between the two is getting old. Top individuals run FL, top teams run NXN. Unfortunately some athletes have to make a choice, but it is what it is. Good luck to Maton at FL and best of luck to the rest of the Summit team in their attempts to qualify for NXN.
riley stops wrote:
TheGarbageDisposal wrote:+1. Footlocker is where the real national championship is.
False. Foot Locker is the real individual national championship, NXN is the real team championship. They are different types of events at this point and the debate between the two is getting old. Top individuals run FL, top teams run NXN. Unfortunately some athletes have to make a choice, but it is what it is. Good luck to Maton at FL and best of luck to the rest of the Summit team in their attempts to qualify for NXN.
Actually, you are not correct. NXN is NOT a national high school team championship. It is "club" teams and, more importantly, there is not open access to the qualifying due to state sanctioning regulations.
Leave the kid alone. Find another "cause" to rally behind. This is a high school kid. This board never fails to amaze me.
PS: nut up and use your real name and real email address if you feel like you have such a strong argument to the contrary.
Melancholy Parent wrote:
http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=news&news_id=298307His teammates and coaches seem to be OK with it, but one has to wonder if it's a mistake all of them will regret. Are they not a team? What team parts ways with their superstar heading into the postseason and feels good about it? What type of superstar bails on his team for personal glory at Footlocker when personal glory AND team glory are possible at NXN?
This reflects poorly on Maton and his coaches. It's like they don't get it. XC is a team sport. His high school teammates will always remember what could have been had Maton not just used them to get better training in for his own personal ambitions. Future teammates will know that Maton is all-in for their college team, until there is an opportunity where he can ditch them too and get some more media attention.
You sure you're not a melancholy Nike employee with ties to NXN?
I understand that he wants to go to FL because of the individual success. But, if his team has a similar result as Chantilly's team did (being extremely close to qualifying for NXN) either the Summit coach/Maton will regret the decision. No one on this forum can say that a few of the teammates/the coach won't be pissed if they are a few points to making NXN and don't because of Maton. XC is suppose to be a team sport, which makes it different than track. FL is slowly splitting teams apart. I've seen similar situations to his more often recently. Where's the team atmosphere in XC going?!
runjunkie wrote:
I understand that he wants to go to FL because of the individual success. But, if his team has a similar result as Chantilly's team did (being extremely close to qualifying for NXN) either the Summit coach/Maton will regret the decision. No one on this forum can say that a few of the teammates/the coach won't be pissed if they are a few points to making NXN and don't because of Maton. XC is suppose to be a team sport, which makes it different than track. FL is slowly splitting teams apart. I've seen similar situations to his more often recently. Where's the team atmosphere in XC going?!
Yes, we on the forum can say that. I would be pissed if I was his teammate and he picked NXN over FLN. I'd want him to go f*ck sh!t up. How is FL slowly splitting teams apart? The team ends at the state meet - anything beyond that is offseason club running.
I don't care too much one way or another. Hopefully this kid and his team both go onto their respective national championship races and have a great time.
Wanted to point out that you know it's a bad day when Kevin Hadsell feels like he's got the moral high ground on his side.
Ha! Not moral high ground by any means. Listen, I screwed up and paid for it (Big time). Nobody feels worse about it than me. Let's be honest, I, like many, can list off a dozen head coaches right (B1G, SEC, ACC, PAC12, Big 12, IVY, etc.) now that are married to/dated/live with former runners. Not justifying anything. Not condoning it. Just being honest. And, let's also be real, there are a lot more important people than me (president clinton, clarence thomas, etc.) that have done a lot worse and moved on.
Again, not condoning or justifying; just being honest.
Love this board. Love the sport. The past is the past. It is what it is. Flame away if it makes you feel better. It really doesn't matter.
aslan wrote:
Team above all else.
I understand he wants to race the best in the nation, but if I were his teammate, his coach, or even him I would not accept this decision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzbt_yQrQjk
Ninety nine percent of distance running fans do not really care which team wins, they do not have anything really invested in it. Team cross country is big but the context is conference and state. Only when you get to college to a significant number of people care about individual teams. As a result, Footlocker is a much more interesting race to me than NXN.
Melancholy Parent wrote:
wongg wrote:Would his team have been favored or even had a chance to win NXN?
If not, pfft, who cares.
If so, he might have opted for NXN, but I dont begrudge him for going to FL.
Yes, they are considered to be a Top-5 team nationally when Maton is running with them. That's the point. They have a shot to win a team and individual national championship together, AS A TEAM.
Apologies to Summit HS, Maton and his coaches. I simply think they are going to regret it later on. The coaches, school, and kids involved are likely to never have an opportunity like this again.
Maybe my piss and vinegar ought to be directed towards whoever it is among the NFHS, Footlocker and Nike camps that can't put on one legitimate meet that is run like an actual XC race.
Then maybe NXN was the better option. I frankly view an NXN win as equal to a FL win and if the team is that good, why not? Its not as if footlocker is the Olympics and NXN is PanAm games...they are pretty equal in terms of prestige and I'd say NXN is on the rise if anything.
Check 1..2...Check 1..2 wrote:
You sure you're not a melancholy Nike employee with ties to NXN?
::cough::cough::watchout!::cough::cough::
Just bustin your chops, Kevin. I'm not hatin on ya. Surprised it doesn't happen more often.
My high school had 5 guys sub 16:30 but was not chosen to race the seeded division at NXN regionals for some unknown reason. Our 15:30 and 16:00 guy then asked NXN if they could run the seeded race as individuals which they were allowed to do.
Should they have run in the open race with us so that we could have won instead of coming in 2nd with our 3-9???
No dog in this fight! wrote:
Just bustin your chops, Kevin. I'm not hatin on ya. Surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Nice. There is a vocal minority that is not so conspicuous, and looking for another 15-seconds of fame, that love to try and bring a brother down. Good to see someone just bustin. I make fun of myself so I am down for a little razzing man.
It is a club race in name only. It is absolutely a high school team championship as only high school teams may compete. That said, I could see there being an issue if the kid decided at the last minute to ditch the team for Footlocker but they've known it all along. I bet those kids are psyched to show their mettle at Nike Regionals witbout Maton.
Most people here are aware of the fact that Nike PR people use this board to advertise inconspicuously. I'm actually surprised that they've let the voices of reason dominate this thread for so long. You can expect that to change once the workday starts.
You need a reality check homie wrote:
This is the most ignorant post I've ever read. I am not from Oregon, but the kid is an absolute talent and for you to try to degrade that over a postseason choice to run a race he wants to be remembered for is a shame.
Footlocker is where the defending national champion will be, and when you run 80+ miles a week to work up to beat him and beat Galen Rupp's state record en route, you better be in the race where Grant Fisher is running.
I bet his teammates are actually supportive, those directly impacted, and wish him the best.
This could be the toughest year in the HS XC running scene in recent years past and whoever is #1 by the end of the year deserves all the praise in the world.
No way does Maton have a chance like all these other guys do if he doesn't run at Footlocker.
By your logic, Austin Tamagno deserves criticism for not running with Brea Olinda and opting for FL too. In no world does he deserve that criticism though.
Agree with everything here.
If you're a high school team and you've won your State's Cross Country Championship, you have reached the top. The rest would be just icing on the cake and the team's trip (without Maton) will be just as memorable for them. Plus they'll be able say they ran with Matthew M. F. Matton in high school.
Footlocker is the venue for quite a few NCAA CC Champs, Olympians, World Championship participants, etc. and Maton is smart to test himself against the best individuals. Not sure I'd even know who's been to Nike Team Nationals and agree with several posters who have said it's a little contrived.
