Dennis Kimetto - what are we Westerners still missing about Kenyan Marathoners?

I am patiently waiting for Renato Canova to come and explain. Until then, I will disregard all of the uninformed clowns in this thread.

It took just 200 years for the racehorse to "evolve" to the point that no randomly bred horse can come within 200 yards of it over one mile.

A lot can happen in a very short period of time when the pressure is on to create something more suitable.

A system which has proven results, a large talent pool, top western coaches, life changing financial incentives, singular focus on running, less competition from other sports, high altitude running with lots of hills, PEDs maybe but nothing that nobody else does not have.. no surprises here.. if the west could replicate those conditions, no reason they would not be achieving the same results..

A1 Genetics wrote:

It took just 200 years for the racehorse to "evolve" to the point that no randomly bred horse can come within 200 yards of it over one mile.

A lot can happen in a very short period of time when the pressure is on to create something more suitable.

Ok SMJO

Optional extras wrote:

a large talent pool

That's the one that's missing. The pool is very large but the talent in it is much sparser than it is in the African areas.

"Drugs" and "superior work ethics" are the responses of the ignorant.

good job guy wrote:

A1 Genetics wrote:

It took just 200 years for the racehorse to "evolve" to the point that no randomly bred horse can come within 200 yards of it over one mile.

A lot can happen in a very short period of time when the pressure is on to create something more suitable.

Ok SMJO

isherite?

A1 Genetics wrote:

Optional extras wrote:

a large talent pool

That's the one that's missing. The pool is very large but the talent in it is much sparser than it is in the African areas.

bingo. These "culture" folks just can't admit defeat They refuse that white people couldn't beat africans in EVERYthing if they only wanted to. lol.

In sprinting, it's because the blacks all cheat, but whitey doesn't combined with white kids being "brainwashed" into thinking they can't sprint. (ya know, PC conspiracy)

In the marathon, it's well, culture, and all our 2:03 marathoners chose to play NFL football, or work a 9-5 desk job. Ya know, because making a million $'s to be a WR in the marathon and win the gold medal is just beneath us. Lol x 5.

The East Africans may very well have superior talent but it does not explain their ability to push each other to newer and bigger heights. They did not stop at 2:06 when that was the gold standard they just kept pushing it. The rest of the world seems to have outliers that pop up every once in a while then go back to mediocrity. That is the biggest evidence for me of a significant non-talent factor. Once you throw in the fact as mentioned before that you have a british woman run 2:15 and no one has even touched that, it even more specious to blame your genetics alone.

I love how a farm boy from Kenya gets you all riled up.Take a look at his appearance. His legs, his leg length, the diameter of his calves and quads, even his arms. Then, take a look at most of the top American marathoners.That's just the start.Comments like this, "It's hard to believe the difference between the best Kenyan Marathoner and US Marathoner is talent" drive home a point that others have made about the U.S. marathon scene.Americans just don't get.....it has always been about talent. The different is that a poor farm boy in Kenya, whether it's Geoffrey Mutai or Dennis Kimetto, can actually overcome his background and DO THINGS with his life whereas in the states he is intentionally held down by the class system that is stifling U.S. distance running.

Dude! wrote:

How is this guy THAT much better than Western runners?

In 2011 he came out of "nowhere" to shock the world. Is that really the case? Did he do NO aerobic training since childhood (i.e.. run X miles to/from school...etc..)?

Was the farming a form of training stimulus? It's hard to believe the difference between the best Kenyan Marathoner and US Marathoner is talent. Elites all work hard, all have a good amount of talent. There shouldn't be a difference in orders of magnitude.

The question is - what was Dennis Kimetto doing between birth and when he broke onto the scene? Walking X miles weekly? Hard labor farming?

missing various things wrote:

The East Africans may very well have superior talent but it does not explain their ability to push each other to newer and bigger heights. They did not stop at 2:06 when that was the gold standard they just kept pushing it. The rest of the world seems to have outliers that pop up every once in a while then go back to mediocrity. That is the biggest evidence for me of a significant non-talent factor. Once you throw in the fact as mentioned before that you have a british woman run 2:15 and no one has even touched that, it even more specious to blame your genetics alone.

They have to push each other, they are basically just competing against each other now.

never in the history of letsrun threads

has so much much BS been spewed by so few

to so many

BS = Brilliant Science

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

yyy wrote:

Long fast training runs. Western runners are still goofing

around on the their Sunday long runs in 7min/mile pace, while

the Kenyans go sub5.

That's because they are faster.

Gee, maybe I should running my long runs at sub 5, why didn't *I* think of that??? Check back with me next year, now that I know this, I will be running 2:03 next year. Thanks 'bro!

yyy wrote:The gap on the track is closing, while it is increasing

on the road.

You seriously can't figure out the relationship here? Where is the $$$$$$$$$ ? And because of that answer, where is the east african talent? THAT is why were are "closing the gap" (not really actually) on the track, but it is increasing on the roads.

renato has posted previously that lopes a 2-07(circa 1984) white guy from portugal

and another italian marathoner whose name escapes me were both capable of 2-04 with specific training

and this is 20-30 years we're going back

so it's not just genetics

peleton wrote:

renato has posted previously that lopes a 2-07(circa 1984) white guy from portugal

and another italian marathoner whose name escapes me were both capable of 2-04 with specific training

and this is 20-30 years we're going back

so it's not just genetics

"He thinks" does not mean 100% guaranteed.

Dude! wrote:

Most of the changes we've seen are cosmetic - skin color, hair color. We are all extremely similar and the racial differences is an illusion that makes us seem like we're much more different.

This is completely true - most ethnicities prefer procreating with their own ethnicity. This accelerates the cosmetic differences between races, but "under the hood" we're not much different. All ethnicities still have the same athletic ceiling even if the averages are slightly different.

peleton wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

That's because they are faster.

Gee, maybe I should running my long runs at sub 5, why didn't *I* think of that??? Check back with me next year, now that I know this, I will be running 2:03 next year. Thanks 'bro!

You seriously can't figure out the relationship here? Where is the $$$$$$$$$ ? And because of that answer, where is the east african talent? THAT is why were are "closing the gap" (not really actually) on the track, but it is increasing on the roads.

renato has posted previously that lopes a 2-07(circa 1984) white guy from portugal

and another italian marathoner whose name escapes me were both capable of 2-04 with specific training

and this is 20-30 years we're going back

so it's not just genetics

Stefano Baldini

You dumb wrote:

Take a look at his appearance. His legs, his leg length, the diameter of his calves and quads, even his arms.

Then, take a look at most of the top American marathoners.

Okay expert, have you measured this? What is his arm or quad diameter? What is Ritz's or Hall's or Henryk Szost's? What was Alberto Salazar's or Tony Sandoval's or Carlos Lopes's measurements? They all look basically the same - really skinny - exactly what you'd expect from a marathoner.

bigtool05 wrote:

peleton wrote:

renato has posted previously that lopes a 2-07(circa 1984) white guy from portugal

and another italian marathoner whose name escapes me were both capable of 2-04 with specific training

and this is 20-30 years we're going back

so it's not just genetics

Stefano Baldini

Steve Jones could probably be added to that list... he ran 2:07:13 with something ridiculous like a 61:40 first half. Didn't wear a watch to pace himself, but he didn't do many long runs either which might be why he faded so badly at the end of races.