What a 1500!!! Kiplagat 3:27.64. 5 guys break 3:30. Leo the Lion roars again - Manzano over Centro in 3:30.98!!!

FSM wrote:

Rockets red glare wrote:

Yes. The only reason rabbits help at all is because of pacing. Wind resistance changes is almost negligible. See David Rudisha. Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt.

You clearly didn't read the link I posted and / or don't understand science.

Rockets red glare wrote:

And yes that pacing is only worth one second, especially for Ryun who was more of an 800 runner. If he had gone out in 56 that race he would not have responded like you think.

No

An update on pacing:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

Ho Hum wrote:

Give it a rest about Ryun already. Let's have a 5 year moratorium on all mentions of the guy's hypothetical potential.

With ventolin I could accept 5 days. Hell, 5 MINUTES would be a start.

That's not Ventolin. Venty would have Ryun worth 3:42 for the mile. 3:46 and change is, at least, probably closer to reality.

Sagarin wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

With ventolin I could accept 5 days. Hell, 5 MINUTES would be a start.

That's not Ventolin. Venty would have Ryun worth 3:42 for the mile. 3:46 and change is, at least, probably closer to reality.

You are correct, but I knew that. Because the poster was referencing a moratorium on "Ryun could have run x:xx if..." conversations I obviously thought of ventolin (who else could one think of?). And I was stating that 5 years is a bit ambitious, and that with ventolin 5 minutes of refraining from such conjecture (oh, excuse me, mathematical calculations) would be a lofty goal, and I'd take it.

is pacing update wrote:

FSM wrote:

You clearly didn't read the link I posted and / or don't understand science.

No

An update on pacing:

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/is-drafting-a-placebo

Yes, runners are not subject to the laws of physics. Only cyclists, and speed skaters, and skiers, and cars, and planes, and birds, and like everything but runners really. It's placebo.

Did you read the abstract to that study? Here it is, "we are retarded. p = .000001"

Ok. Read it.

1. The article says that it is worth one second if you are going 71 seconds per lap.

If you extrapolate that to someone running 55 seconds a lap that would yield only a 0.78 seconds per lap difference. The cinders explanation has the same reasoning. If its worth 1 second per lap at 71 second laps thats only 0.78 at 55 pace.

2. At paces near 55 seconds per lap it is more difficult to physically run close enough to a runner to get that same kind of draft. This is because your stride is so much longer at these paces it would not be worth the risk. As a result you would drastically reduce the drafting effect.

3. Most importantly readings were taken directly behind a runners body. Unfortunately the person in front of you when you are running is not a wall. They are a moving person, with air moving through gaps in swinging arms and legs.

Ryun was a great runner, but it is stupid to keep on comparing him to guys running 3:26-3:29. If you asked him, he would admit himself that he was not close to these guys. After all he never won an Olympics and he never beat anyone who broke 3:30 on a synthetic track (even though many he competed against had that opportunity).

He said American. Not a Naturalized or a convert.

Ftards, surrounded by em, am I wrote:

Yes, runners are not subject to the laws of physics. Only cyclists, and speed skaters, and skiers, and cars, and planes, and birds, and like everything but runners really. It's placebo.

Did you read the abstract to that study? Here it is, "we are retarded. p = .000001"

That is about the best abstract that I have ever read.

Kudos!

Crete wrote:

bigtool05 wrote:

54 is right on considering he was shooting for a world record. Current world record is pace is 54.9 per lap

Yeah but they ain't in that WR shape so going out in 54 is not smart. Kiplagat won bc he wasn't sitting on the pacers like kiprop. It was a risk Kiprop took and it backfired.

Yeah in retrospect. My point is don't blame the pacemakers. It was purely Kiprop's fault. He misjudged his own fitness

I started this thread just to have the headline for Manzano's time.

They changed the title to add the other stuff.

I guess I feel special.

Just having Manzano and 3:30. looks wild.

I'm a big fan. I thought about calling for him to run under 3:30.90 to pass Wheating on the all time US list before the race.

But that would have really been for attention and controversy. Can't say I really thought he'd approach that.

I thought his 3:32.37 2010 time would be his lifetime PR. 3:32 high would have been great.

So, can anyone say they thought he had 3:30 in him?

I know he has his detractors. They say he's only useful in a slow tactical race.

He was only 8th, but the 5th fastest American ever looks good on his resume.

Wind resistance at those speeds is important.

I'll side with you on this one. Leo is way underrated, and deserves the credit where it's due. He proved what he's worth and continues to make nike twist their panties in a wad.

I think his fitness is on par with last year and in fact he went out this race a tiny bit slower than last year when he ran 327. so imho he made the right call this race and just tied up a bit. it happens. you don't always have a 100% perfect race and last year was special. and honestly it's probably pretty hard to feel the difference between 54.5 and 54.0 so I think we're being a little too critical about "tactical errors". the pacemaker was reasonable and he tucked in and probably saved some mental energy.

let's not forget, he just ran 328...superb

Im confused the excited commentary here , both Leo and Centro were never in the hunt , Leo interviews excited Centro down with the reality of not being close to the leaders. Good american times by both but by years end their times won't make the world top 20. The bar has been lifted with the sub 3:30 standard.

Quite the extrapolation; considering wind resistance is greater at faster speeds.

Leo though may be the best American born 1500m runner ever.

Leo's meow ! wrote:

Im confused the excited commentary here , both Leo and Centro were never in the hunt , Leo interviews excited Centro down with the reality of not being close to the leaders. Good american times by both but by years end their times won't make the world top 20. The bar has been lifted with the sub 3:30 standard.

As of now, Manzano and Centro are numbers 10 and 11 on the world lead list. They are not going to get passed by another ten guys.

Also, and more to the point, there were a lot of very fast 1500m times in 2012 and 2013 before the Olympics and the WCs. And then something changed. People either didn't show up or when they did show up, they clearly weren't in the same form.

It wasn't just that the Oly/WC 1500m races were tactical, the runners were not the same. So we know the bar can go up and go down. And we know Manzano and Centro have medaled before and have just run their best times. We'll see what happens in 2015.

you possess at least 2 neurones

theoretical max drafting at fast 800/1500 is ~ 1.5s/lap using wind/altitude calculator

input for 100m, 50.0 - 55.0 value & wind of 400/50 or 400/55

determine basic 400

as you can't limpet that close without tangling & falling, i go with 0.75s/lap

utter drivel

he'd have crushed these guys so bad they wouda moved to shiit-shovelling or even worse, the 5k

immediately...

jjjjjjjjj wrote:On cinders, Ryun ran 2:50 his last 1320 (1207m) in his 3:51.1 mile world record, and of course led every step of the race--there were no rabbits in the race, as the announcer says. And no one was close enough to provide any chasing effect.

Today, lead was 2:47.7 through 1200m.

try 1500wr

in 95 heat & worst smog in 1st world :

last 1200 of 2'46.6 on dirt

he ran 1st bend of this in lane 2

more like, for route-1

2'46.0

he only put in serious effort in last 300 of this when destroying keino by 20 yards in this short space & keino even dipped at the line to shave time

something more like

2'44+

( off handicap of chewed up dirt/95F/smog/uneven pace

( keino messed pace around ) )

if he'd actually pushed it flat-out last 1200

Yes wind resistance may be greater and I didn't account for that because I felt the increased distance between runners would be a wash with that.

But my original comment is correct. 0.78 seconds at 55 sec/lap pace is the same speed increase (in m/s) as 1 second per lap at 71 pace.

Take this extreme (impossible) example to prove my point.

If somehow an athlete were to be able to run 0.8 seconds for 400m then you added a rabbit they wouldn't run -0.2 seconds for 400. You can't simply subtract the same time at paces around 70 as you can at 55 (or 1sec/lap in this extreme case). You must take only percentage into account.