Connor Mantz, 11th, 2:10:25, 3rd American - Are you giving Mantz a pass for his Boston result today?

I’m not sure it’s the days off that are hurting him, though I would personally prefer a day off after every ten day cycle, not every week.

I think it’s more specificity of training. The kid is fit if he can drop a 27:25 in the middle of a huge training block, but it just seems like he needs more really longish tempos.

Having said all of this, what really got him into trouble today was going out so fast, then blowing up. As someone else mentioned, he was basically trying to hang with 2:03 guys when he is a 2:08 guy. However, I think he’s really a 2:06 guy and will get there with smarter pacing on a more even course.

Well, maybe. It's pretty much acknowledged in big time marathons that if you don't expect to win but want to place as highly as possible the thing to do is what Scott Fauble does, i.e., hold back early, move up through the field and eventually pick off guys who went too hard too soon. He gets hammered here at times for doing that but it gets him good placings. On the other hand, if you're actually trying to win a big marathon there's a pretty common belief that you need to maintain contact with the lead pack. If that pack runs 14:17 for the first 5 km you need to do that as well. It usually doesn't work but once in a while it can.

The other thing that comes to mind here is Bill Rodgers' old quote about the how "marathon can always humble you." I wonder how many people who criticize elites who have disappointing races really understand that. You don't run a really good marathon just by deciding to.

Mantz' PRs are 13:11, 27:25, 2:08 and there's nothing on his list of credentials that show he's even close to capable of hanging with the field that was there today, and predictably he didn't manage to do so. It makes no sense to go out with a group like that when you have zero chance of staying with them. He needs shore up his training and bridge the gap before he tries stuff like that. Hope is not a plan.

What do you mean?

Personally, he doesn't owe me anything. I'm just a mild fan. If he runs bad, I feel sorry for him.

Is his career over? Not by a long shot, obviously

Out of all the Americans in the field, only Mantz and Albertson raced for the win. I'll take that over Fauble's brave effort to get a whole 15s of screen time any day.

Sure there's some balance that needs to be had, maybe instead of pushing the pace just sit in the pack. But he made an effort to be there unlike nearly everyone else, that's far more impressive in my book.

He went for it. Good for him. Hindsight is 20/20. If he stayed back with Fauble he would have beaten him(obviously). I'll never blame a world class athlete for shooting for the stars.

He's not a world-class athlete, he's in that group right behind that level.

I agree with your assessment. Take the lessons learned, restructure the training and fill in the gaps in the preparation.

You could also make the argument that that’s just how he is wired and that he similarly had no business leading the NCAA cross country championship as a freshman through 8k without any credentials, but fading but still placing top 10.

Take the heart and mind-set, restructure some training (I’m a miler - what do I know) and keep swinging for the fence - medaling at a major marathon - which he swung at today.

I like it that we have two kinds of top American marathoners. We have the Fauble types who run smart and roll people up at that end. I like the Mantz type for the fact that they try to go with it.

The race is better with a few guys trying each option. Would you really prefer if the whole contingent of Americans just "ran their own race" and maximized their finish placing? Why would Mantz beating Fauble be a better result for us (as a nation)?

Yes, Mantz could personally have done better by running "smarter" but I don't think that would have made the race more enjoyable for me as a fan.

So yes, I am happy to give him a pass for trying something!

It doesn't seem like you NCAA fans realize the huge gulf between the college cross country championships and a field of 2:01 to 2:04 marathon guys. You aren't going to just pop a big race out of the blue and beat those guys if you're really not near their level.

I'd be curious to see if Americans had more success by running more than two marathons a year. The last time the US was still competitive (times relative to world record) was the Rodgers and Salazar era of the late 1970s and early 80s and both of them tended to do many more marathons per year.

Rodgers was a pretty extreme example but I don't see the harm in adding a 3rd or even 4th race in a year. Everyone is different but in the past it was not uncommon for the best in the world to do this.

Expectations for him were way too high. He is talented but not a special talent. Hope he continues to improve as he is very tough and a great competitor.

I get where you're coming from. But at the end of the day, Fauble got the one-up over Mantz. his more measured approach gave him the better result. There are no medals for valiant efforts that don't result in the podium at the Olympics or at Worlds.

I wont lie that Mantz and Albertson had me excited through the halfway point, but I would have preferred to see him hammering his way home in the last few miles, pass a slowing Kipchoge and finish 6th, than fall off from the lead pack in the final miles and finish 11th.

I give him a pass because this is a learning experience for him. But I don't want to see him make this same mistake, especially in a place like Paris. Not that I don't think he can mix up with a world class field, but he needs to be more measured and logical about his tactical decisions. Most of the guys in a field like today have a significant advantage over Mantz in most areas. Mantz needs maximize every tactical advantage he can get in these races.

Bill Rodger's first marathons up to his sub 2:10 at Boston

1973 Boston Marathon (Did not Finish)(DNF)
1973 Bay State Marathon (2:28:12) 1st Course Record (CR)
1974 Boston (2:19:34) 14th
1974 New York City Marathon (NYC) (2:36:00) 5th
1974 Philadelphia Marathon (2:21:57) 1st CR
1975 Boston (2:09:55) 1st American Record (AR)

This is Mantz's second, super shoes and yes technology is all different but it takes a few Marathons to get it sometimes.

If he didn't crater I think he gets sub 2:09, he'll be back and ready next time.

This

I'd argue that to be as competitive as you can be, you must try and run your fastest time possible. No point in hanging with leaders if you can't hold the pace. The way Fauble ran is how everyone should treat racing. Run your own race and hope its enough to podium or win.

Guy had BALLS. I coulde see them swinging between his oddly pigeon toed legs, chafing chafing and chafing. Long live Mantz the MAN!!

Would you say there was no point in Kipchoge hanging with the leaders if he couldn't hold the pace? In fact NO ONE in the race was capable of holding the pace today. Did Evans Chebet make a mistake by going with leaders because he positive split?

You have to decide if youre racing or if you want to look good by passing Africans who have given up because the pay day is no longer realistic. Mantz chose to race, went through 1/2 near Fauble's PR (until last year), and still ran time a time Fauble would likely be happy with. I'm super encouraged by Mantz's performance today

His last 10k was over 33 minutes. Ouch. Poor guy.