Oh so close!! Donavan Brazier just misses the AR - 1:45.11. Boris Berian races with GUTS.

The problem is that nobody seems to agree with your "proper perspective". Just because you offer it doesn't make it so.

Plenty of Kenyan talent is appreciated with them never setting foot in the country. You think people don't appreciate Kipchoge's and Rudisha's talent?

I'd Berian intends of being a pace maker he should start doing that and commanding a financial reward for it.

Otherwise, it's a pretty stupid tactic. He hasn't learned how fit he is and he hasn't had a nice confidence boosting opener. Just a sorry 200m of pain.

Very much akin to Duane Solomon trying to run at world record pace in the US trials and simply collapsing after 700m in the lead.

It's a race, use the best tactics given your fitness, the competition and all other factors to try and win on the day. People criticised Farah for this approach but racing smart is part of the game.

ex-runner wrote:

It's a race, use the best tactics given your fitness, the competition and all other factors to try and win on the day. People criticised Farah for this approach but racing smart is part of the game.

Is that the approach you used as a pro?

rojo wrote:

What a beast.

And how about Boris Berian. What balls. Hasn't raced in like forever and he's go the guts to go out in 50.28. Gotta respect that.

Actually it reminded me of a friend who turned up and qualified in the O Trials 400h. He had done very little work. Made the final as in our country you only had to go low 52s back then. (45 years ago)

He then came up and said "But I gave it a go".

No. He missed the right to say that 3 months earlier when he was sitting on his ass playing with his big balls.

I am more impressed with a guy who comes prepared and then looks for something inspirational. Not a guy who comes in half assed and blows up and finishes last. He never had a shot. He learned nothing from that race. When you're all balls, and no legs, you don't run fast.

bigtalkerur wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

It's a race, use the best tactics given your fitness, the competition and all other factors to try and win on the day. People criticised Farah for this approach but racing smart is part of the game.

Is that the approach you used as a pro?

All levels of races are the same in that regard.

bigtalkerur wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

It's a race, use the best tactics given your fitness, the competition and all other factors to try and win on the day. People criticised Farah for this approach but racing smart is part of the game.

Is that the approach you used as a pro?

No but when I was trying to break 1:50 I didn't go out in 51 seconds because that would be ludicrous.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

rojo wrote:

What a beast.

And how about Boris Berian. What balls. Hasn't raced in like forever and he's go the guts to go out in 50.28. Gotta respect that.

But then dies horribly in the finally stretch, terrible. That front running mentality kills his ability. He should have just went out in a relaxed pace to see where he was.

I just don’t get it

If he ran 1:43 you would be sucking his dick right now. The guy doesn't run well from behind, remember when he won a world championship going out in 23? I will agree though, he is very hit or miss though which I think is a product of unbalanced (too much speed) training rather than pacing tactics.

Let it Rupp wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

But then dies horribly in the finally stretch, terrible. That front running mentality kills his ability. He should have just went out in a relaxed pace to see where he was.

I just don’t get it

If he ran 1:43 you would be sucking his dick right now. The guy doesn't run well from behind, remember when he won a world championship going out in 23? I will agree though, he is very hit or miss though which I think is a product of unbalanced (too much speed) training rather than pacing tactics.

?

Extremely bizzare comment.

He ran 1:50. Like a good high school time. If he ran 1:43 indoors he would be something like the second fastest man indoors of all time.

If he was capable of running 1:43 indoors right now he wouldn't have run 1:50.

A 50.8 first 400 is fine for a 1:43 time. The fact he didn't realize that he was not anywhere close to being capable of 1:43 is what everyone is saying shows a complete naivety bordering on stupidity rather than 'balls'.

I hate when people use the “well you’re not a pro” argument like it doesn’t make sense when people criticize.

If ARod comes up 5 times in a game, strikes out everytime in 15 pitches and not one pitch is a strike that he swings at, we can’t criticize?

If Russell westbrook doesn’t drive to the basket once all game and shoots 0-22 from 3 point, can you not criticize?

Berian knew he wasn’t in 1:45-1:46 shape. No one cares that he lead. People think it’s stupid that he ran 50 point. If he lead in 51.8 or 52.2 or something he probably runs better. The dude closed in 60...he’s the reigning world indoor champ. That isn’t good. His last lap was 32+.

Brazier did benefit from him “rabbitting” tho. Front running in the 800 isn’t a bad thing most of the time (rudisha and others have proved this). Running suicidal splits in your first race back isn’t a good thing.

after looking at all the pics and the whole "buy him a beer" nonsense, its easy to see what the deal was.

brazier wanted the AR after coming close the last race. so he hits up boris and asks "hey man i know your not in shape at the moment but i have heard your speed is on point right now...anyways was wondering if you would be down to rabbit me through 400m or more if you can. we can discuss how much i owe you if your interested.

boris thinks to himself..."hmmm i could use the money, and doing a 600m time trial in a meet setting is way better than solo out here in big bear.....plus if i can drop a decent 600m that will really have my confidence going after being out for over a year.....that little sh*t better pay up"

boris paced for 600m and then it says brazier took the lead. unless thats not true then can someone tell me how long boris was in the lead?

24.95

(25.33) 50.28

(27.88) 1:18.16

(32.01) 1:50.17

my guess is he felt good till 500m, but kept going to 600 cause of the deal he made with brazier, then died....could he have run 1:48 high? maybe be dying and being last place he just cruised it in, picked up his paycheck and the brojos made the dumb buy a beer comment

There is no way that the reigning indoor champ knowingly helps his rival to try and take a record he would want himself.

That's not how this sport works. He thought he could win running 1:45 from the front by opening as fast as possible meaning that nobody has the chance to get past on the indoor track but unfortunately was wrong

ex-runner wrote:

There is no way that the reigning indoor champ knowingly helps his rival to try and take a record he would want himself.

That's not how this sport works. He thought he could win running 1:45 from the front by opening as fast as possible meaning that nobody has the chance to get past on the indoor track but unfortunately was wrong

Wow, you just have all the answers. Tactics, how athletes relate to one another, how the sport works...you should consider becoming a coach to pros or an agent or a meet director or something, but then you'd have to give up posting on Letsrun...

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Berian got in very solid training in a race when he wasn't close to top shape but practiced running the first 400m at goal pace and then toughing out a death march to the end. Why bother going out in 53 and coming back in 55 at best?

Finally, someone who gets it^.

All of these loser DISTANCE RUNNERS are saying 'oh gee, why oh why didn't he run at 1:48 pace if he is in 1:48 shape? That's how my high school coach told me to when I was running the mile/XC.' And then the dolts go on to say 'he doesn't even know if he's in 1:43 shape or 1:50 shape!'

Dimwits. Of course he knows if he isn't in 1:43 shape. He would still rather open by RUNNING the 400 in 50-point than jogging a 54. Yes, that takes guts: both to run straight into the pain (rather than a better-feeling even-split race), and also to say 'above 1:46 the number doesn't matter, I'm going to do what I need to do today and that is to run as hard as I can, as long as I can.'

For a speed-based elite 800 runner, finding out that you can jog 54/54 is a waste of time. Finding out where you fitness is, relative to the opening lap you need to compete, is a much more important question. (And jogging through 400 at less than 85% effort has nothing to do with the energy systems needed for an optimal performance.)

A 600 or 700 TT at PR pace is a better use of a day than a slow 800 for someone like Berian, Solomon or Rudisha. Good on him for getting it.

The choice isn't 50 or 54. He could run 52?

Geoffys Queen wrote:

People think it’s stupid that he ran 50 point. If he lead in 51.8 or 52.2 or something he probably runs better.

1. One thing all pros have in common is not caring what "people think" when it comes to training and racing.

2. See my post above, which explains the idiocy of your thinking.

udazzleus wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

There is no way that the reigning indoor champ knowingly helps his rival to try and take a record he would want himself.

That's not how this sport works. He thought he could win running 1:45 from the front by opening as fast as possible meaning that nobody has the chance to get past on the indoor track but unfortunately was wrong

Wow, you just have all the answers. Tactics, how athletes relate to one another, how the sport works...you should consider becoming a coach to pros or an agent or a meet director or something, but then you'd have to give up posting on Letsrun...

There was a pacemaker so Brazier didn't need Berian to be an extra pacemaker. And it would make no sense whatsoever to pay Berian under the table to run 600m flat out and then die and drag himself around the last 200m in outside 32 seconds. If he was going to run a 600m time trial he'd have stopped.

He probably slowed Brazier down forcing him to run wide to overtake and Brazier only missed the record by the tiniest bit.

actual 800 runner wrote:

Geoffys Queen wrote:

People think it’s stupid that he ran 50 point. If he lead in 51.8 or 52.2 or something he probably runs better.

1. One thing all pros have in common is not caring what "people think" when it comes to training and racing.

2. See my post above, which explains the idiocy of your thinking.

Actually, I know for a fact that Berian takes everything ex-runner thinks pretty seriously. Why would he not? ex-runner almost broke 1:50.

You still aren't getting it.

For a global elite speed-based 800 runner, opening in 52+ is a pointless exercise. It's like a world champion opening a 5000 at 15:00 pace. It literally has THAT LITTLE to do with what he needs to get to. At least opening in 25-->50-->1:18 is a performance-relevant effort.

Could he have conceivably run 52/55-->1:47 rather than 50/60-->1:50? Sure. Could he have thus potentially beaten out Wesley Velasquez for fourth? Obviously. The question is which is a better use of the meet opportunity for an elite runner: running as long as you can on an elite pace, with one of the best active 800 runners in the world, or eking out a slightly less-slow time and a slightly higher mid-pack performance, beating one or two semi-elites.

Berian obviously made a choice that rankles a few of you. Maybe because it was the choice that took GUTS.