Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

LeMond wrote:

Aouita and Coe have met. Not sure who won. But Coe is comfortably taller than Aouita.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Ghi8YVAAAwb39.png

Abdi Bile still obstructing Coe...

Coevett wrote:

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The point the Saidipede doesn't get is that Coe and Ovett knew they would face each other in the major championships (barring injury) so why should they meet on the circuit?

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Yeah, Walker and Scott didn't get that point either.

race hustler wrote:

Coevett wrote:

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The point the Saidipede doesn't get is that Coe and Ovett knew they would face each other in the major championships (barring injury) so why should they meet on the circuit?

...

Yeah, Walker and Scott didn't get that point either.

Huh?

race hustler wrote:

Coevett wrote:

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The point the Saidipede doesn't get is that Coe and Ovett knew they would face each other in the major championships (barring injury) so why should they meet on the circuit?

...

Yeah, Walker and Scott didn't get that point either.

Neither Walker nor Scott ever beat a fit and healthy Coe or Ovett (unless you count Ovett in Helsinki as fit and healthy, which obviously he was close to given his WR later, but he had been coming back from over 30 months of injuries and no uninterrupted racing).

In 79, athletics fans weren't clamouring to see Walker VS Ovett. Obviously they were happy to see two superstars in the same race, but there was little doubt that Ovett would win.

I've never said that Ovett and Coe didn't dodge each other, and it was a tragedy and even something to criticize both of them for. But it's just not comparable to Aouita NEVER taking on Coe, Cram, or Ovett, when any of them were at their best except Helsinki (when he had no other choice really in 83) and Nice in 85, when NOBODY expected Cram to be WR shape, and the biggest 'threat' was seen as Cruz (laughable now).

Coe didn't have to run the 1500m in Moscow, and Ovett didn't have to run the 800m. Both were heavy favorites for their respective favorite events. Of course, it turned out very differently, but if both had stuck to their own events, both would likely have come home with a gold each.

Aouita was obsessed with his unbeaten record and his continued ability to earn the highest appearance fees.

Coevett wrote:

I've never said that Ovett and Coe didn't dodge each other, and it was a tragedy and even something to criticize both of them for. But it's just not comparable to Aouita NEVER taking on Coe, Cram, or Ovett, when any of them were at their best except Helsinki (when he had no other choice really in 83) and Nice in 85, when NOBODY expected Cram to be WR shape, and the biggest 'threat' was seen as Cruz (laughable now).

"and even something to criticize both of them for" - hahaha

They have run once against each other outside the championships, once - in their whole career.

In 1989 - 8 years after their prime when Ovett was just a shadow of himself at best.

Aouita has raced Cram after LA. Aouita wanted to race Coe after LA - a duel Coe didn't want to have. Aouita has raced Cram in 1985. In 1986 all three of Coe, Cram and Ovett refused to race Aouita in Oslo over 10000m. In 1987 all three of them refused to race Aouita in Latakia in the Steeple (OK, my bad, they were not allowed to race at the Mediterranean Games, otherwise they definitely would have). But why have they refused to race Aouita in the Cinque Mulini?

In 1986 Aouita concentrated on the longer events, a duel over a distance shorter than 2000m would not been fair. In 1987 they could (should?) have raced. I don't think there was any interest in a duel before Seoul from both sides. This could be heavily critizised (I don't do this, since it's their and only their decision which races they do (maybe in coincidence with some manager) and they don't have to please me or any other fan) - for sure for both sides.

Coe and Ovett have dodged each other their full career (with dozens and dozens of opportunities to race each other). Aouita didn't race the same events as the three brits in every year during his prime years and there maybe were 1 1/2 seasons where they could (should?) have had a fair duel.

But for Coedeppe the situation for his heroes for sure again is completely different - since they knew they will race each other two years later at the big championships!! But (not surprisinG9 this stupid argument doesn't hold true for Aouita and Seoul where his long time plan was to run the 1500m (and probably the 800m).

I'm not defending Aouita in any way, who (from an fan based opinion) should have raced against Cram in 1987. But constantly to point on this and always (!!) list excusions why the same standard doesn't hold true for the brits is just staggering.

A fruitful discussion with this wacky character about his heroes is just impossible.

If he is confronted with the fact that Ovett acted in the 800m in Moscow 1980 like a mad wrestler and definitely should have been disqualified the only answer which you get is: "It was normal than...". OK. But why havn't I seen someone else acting like Ovett (generating a lot of trouble throughout the race, even putting his hands on the shoulders of both the runners in front of him in an attempt to get a better position) in the many many races which I have on tape or are to see on YouTube from that period? It was not normal, and Ovett definitely should have been disqualified. The sport is called running, not wrestling. Just imagine Coedeppe finds a race where Aouita has been acted like that!!

Coe dodged Aouita in the 5000m.

He knew he couldn't win.

Aouita dodged Moses in the 400m hurdles.

He knew he couldn't win.

Logically, everyone dodged each other haha.

Coevett wrote:

LeMond wrote:

Aouita and Coe have met. Not sure who won. But Coe is comfortably taller than Aouita.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Ghi8YVAAAwb39.png

Abdi Bile still obstructing Coe...

Bile had much more explosive speed than Coe. Not even close.

Actually, Scott beat a fit and healthy Ovett over 1500m in 1977.

kjklj wrote:

Bile had much more explosive speed than Coe. Not even close.

Lol! You’re such an obvious troll.

89 was when Bile was at his best - along with 87 - and he barely beat a long past his best 32 year old Coe.

Seb Coe would have pulled away with ease in the home straight at his peak, even Ron Clarke said as much in the Australian commentary of the race.

Did you not hear the broadcast? "Coe has 22.7 200m speed in those legs..." and too bad Bile had sub-22.5 speed in his. Much larger, stronger athlete.

Remember when people bragged about Coe's Olympic final 100m? Well here is something haven't seen since - Bile closing out a World Championship in 1:46.00 with a last 100m of 11.81 (splits from R. Quercetano book). Poor Cram dropped a 53-penultimate lap and it only woke up the sleeping giant, Bile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mAxvfUfWg

Well, not sure that counts really. That was his first race in his first season as a true 1500m runner. He made huge progress over the course of the season. That was, however, his last defeat at 1500 until Coe beat him in Moscow over three years later.

True. The real interesting thing would've been to see Scott line up against a fully healthy Coe and Ovett in '82. His 3:47.6 would've had him in the mix with both of them under any conditions.

Coevett wrote:

Well, not sure that counts really. That was his first race in his first season as a true 1500m runner. He made huge progress over the course of the season. That was, however, his last defeat at 1500 until Coe beat him in Moscow over three years later.

Correct, Ovett's defeats don't count (or Coe was the won who has beaten him), only his victories. So: Ovett has won all his races.

Coe and Straub!

Seven defeats from Scott in all, better Mile 2k and 3k PB - doesn't sound like clear domination.

Coevett wrote:

race hustler wrote:

Actually, Scott beat a fit and healthy Ovett over 1500m in 1977.

Well, not sure that counts really. That was his first race in his first season as a true 1500m runner. He made huge progress over the course of the season. That was, however, his last defeat at 1500 until Coe beat him in Moscow over three years later.

Yeah, they never count if it's a Brit, but for everybody else it counts - by your reckoning.

You're such a pathetic homer.

Gregory K. Palm wrote:

Coe dodged Aouita in the 5000m.

He knew he couldn't win.

Aouita dodged Moses in the 400m hurdles.

He knew he couldn't win.

Logically, everyone dodged each other haha.

You're missing the point - the 1500m was and still is the blue ribbend event of the Games. The 5000m at he time was where the failed 1500m guys went to. It was almost the 1500m B race.

Of course, Aouita had had plenty of experience in B races already (1980-1982), so maybe he felt at home...

much closer wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Well, not sure that counts really. That was his first race in his first season as a true 1500m runner. He made huge progress over the course of the season. That was, however, his last defeat at 1500 until Coe beat him in Moscow over three years later.

Correct, Ovett's defeats don't count (or Coe was the won who has beaten him), only his victories. So: Ovett has won all his races.

Coe and Straub!

Seven defeats from Scott in all, better Mile 2k and 3k PB - doesn't sound like clear domination.

Most of those seven defeats where when Ovett was injured or completely shot at the end of his career.

Scott and Walker had better longevity than Ovett, in fact they had the best longevity of just about any 1500m runners I can think of and only Willis compares (I wont include B sample Lagat).

Though I doubt very much Scott or Walker would have been as good at they were in their 30's if they had impaled their thigh on a railing or suffered from severe cardiac problems whilst stubbornly making two Olympic finals despite it.

Scott '82 wrote:

True. The real interesting thing would've been to see Scott line up against a fully healthy Coe and Ovett in '82. His 3:47.6 would've had him in the mix with both of them under any conditions.

He probably would have pushed them to run 3:45.

The low IQ trolls here mock me for claiming that Ovett and (in particular) Coe would have ran faster in 1982 if they hadn't been injured. Scott and Coe were the same age. Scott took a step forward in 82, and there's no reason Ovett and Coe wouldn't have too.

The other thing is that Scott never really performed on the big day. It's true that he had bad luck with no major championship in his best year (82) but he had a great opportunity in 83, again in 84 where he completely flopped in his own city, and again in 88 (fair play to him for still being in the mix at that stage).

In 82, he had the stage practically to himself, so to speak, so the pacing was for him, all eyes were on him in Oslo etc.

Not knocking Scott, one of the greats, but I don't believe he was quite on the same level as the Brits.