If Coe and Aouita raced over 1500m/mile. Who would win?
I believe in a tactical race, Coe would have the upper hand with his kick.
Too bad they did not actually race.
If Coe and Aouita raced over 1500m/mile. Who would win?
I believe in a tactical race, Coe would have the upper hand with his kick.
Too bad they did not actually race.
Check the 1984 Olympic 1500m entries and see what they both thought.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Check the 1984 Olympic 1500m entries and see what they both thought.
Aouita was still concentrating on the 1500 at that time, although he could have run the 1500. In point of fact they both avoided each other after the '84 Games.
I'd take my man Aouita! ? For one he has a faster PB than Coe (3:29.46 - 3:29.77).
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Check the 1984 Olympic 1500m entries and see what they both thought.
Aouita reached his peak after 1984. All his PBs were achieved 1985 onwards.
Coe probably would have won if they raced in the 1984 Olympics.
Frenzel wrote:
If Coe and Aouita raced over 1500m/mile. Who would win?
I believe in a tactical race, Coe would have the upper hand with his kick.
Too bad they did not actually race.
Aouita. Easily.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Check the 1984 Olympic 1500m entries and see what they both thought.
+1
Aouita was even saying in 1987, when explaining why he was running the 5000 in Rome instead of the 1500, that he regarded the 1500 as his best event, but ran in the 5000 because he had an better chance of winning.
5000 in 84 was very weak compared to the previous Olympics (reindeer milked up Viren, Yifter in 80). A couple of fairly dangerous Iberians and some old Milers who had moved up themselves to avoid Coe and Cram and who (such as Walker) were a decade older than Aouita and certainly not taking the stuff he was on.
And anyway, you just have to look at Zurich post LA, when both avoided each other. Coe ran a superb race, although he was denied the opportunity of breaking the WR because of poor pacing again. He looked like the thoroughbred he was pulling away from the field with an effortless change of gears in the final 100. He was certainly in sub 3:30 form that night and probably would have ran 3:28 with decent pacing. Aouita ran the Mile and looked nowhere near his 85 best, struggling to hold off John Walker in the home straight. When did Coe ever struggle to hold off John Walker?
It was both parties fault why they didn't run against each other in Zurich. Coe was planning to move up to the 5000m in 1985 (a back injury early in that season put paid to that) so he saw this as his very last chance in his career to grab back Ovett's 1500 WR and be the first man under 3:30. He felt that if Aouita was in the field, then it should be a proper race, but he preferred to go for the WR. Aouita had his chance to face Coe in LA and chickened out. Again, just look at their relative performances on that same night in Zurich and it's clear Coe would have destroyed Aouita both then and the week before in LA.
https://youtu.be/MOVrht9WIvE?t=4m2shttps://youtu.be/ze_fkLP7U4c?t=1m20sDonnie Azoff wrote:
Frenzel wrote:
If Coe and Aouita raced over 1500m/mile. Who would win?
I believe in a tactical race, Coe would have the upper hand with his kick.
Too bad they did not actually race.
Aouita. Easily.
I would say Aouita. Guys like Gonzalez were beating Coe over 1500m/mile but Gonzalez could not quite match Cram or Aouita over 1500m in big races although he did match Cram in 1987. Aouita also won a bronze in the non-boycotted 1988 Olympics 800m carrying a heavy injury which is crazy when you think that he won a gold in the 1984 Olympics 5000m although that was boycotted. Imagine Bekele moving down to 800m and winning a medal.
As for drug use I think Aouita was doping. I don't know about Coe I used think not but after all the revelations that have leaked about the sport, nothing would surprise me anymore.
Coevett wrote:
When did Coe ever struggle to hold off John Walker?
1976 Emsley Carr Mile.
Since you asked wrote:
Coevett wrote:
When did Coe ever struggle to hold off John Walker?
1976 Emsley Carr Mile.
Yep, when Walker had won Olympic Gold the week before and Coe was still an underdeveloped unheard of teenager yet still managed to give prime Walker a good scrap.
Looking at that race, the 76 trials came just a few weeks too early for him. Of course he wouldn't have medalled or anything in Montreal, but who knows what the experience of an Olympic Games going into Moscow four years later would have had?
80s fan wrote:
Donnie Azoff wrote:
Aouita. Easily.
I would say Aouita. Guys like Gonzalez were beating Coe over 1500m/mile but Gonzalez could not quite match Cram or Aouita over 1500m in big races although he did match Cram in 1987. Aouita also won a bronze in the non-boycotted 1988 Olympics 800m carrying a heavy injury which is crazy when you think that he won a gold in the 1984 Olympics 5000m although that was boycotted. Imagine Bekele moving down to 800m and winning a medal.
As for drug use I think Aouita was doping. I don't know about Coe I used think not but after all the revelations that have leaked about the sport, nothing would surprise me anymore.
Well I guess the OP didn't state which year? If we are talking about their respective peaks, or a year when both were close to their peaks, I refer you to my previous post regarding Zurich 84.
If we're talking about when Coe was unwell or recovering from injury, and losing to guys like Scott and Gonzalez such as 83 or 85, then obviously Aouita. But then why not Coe vs Aouita in 81? Too bad Aouita wasn't on the peds yet and was running 3:40 in b races, not good enough to even be Coe's pacemaker.
Coe beat Cram in 84, when Aoutia ducked both (and Ovett). Cram beat Aouita in 85. True Cram and Gonzalez beat Coe, but Coe was not at his best. Aouita never had injuries, and when he did take the slightest knock, such as 88 or 90, he was broken. The fact that Gonzalez beat Coe in the Mile race with Cram in 85 shows he was not at his best. He beat Gonzalez handily the next year. Coe had 3 weeks missed training, then raced Cram and Gonzalez almost immediately after only one 800m warm up race. Coe was in better form than Cram early in 85. Both would have likely gone under 3:46 if Coe was fit.
Up to 1990, Gonzalez beat Cram 6 times on the track.
He beat Coe twice; in 83, when Coe was struggling all season with illness, and in 85, Gonzalez’s best year, in the Oslo Mile. Coe had a poor season in 85, missed a month’s summer training prior to that Oslo race, and suffered with an underlying back problem for rest of season.
Coe beat Gonzalez 6 times.
Deanouk wrote:
Up to 1990, Gonzalez beat Cram 6 times on the track.
He beat Coe twice; in 83, when Coe was struggling all season with illness, and in 85, Gonzalez’s best year, in the Oslo Mile. Coe had a poor season in 85, missed a month’s summer training prior to that Oslo race, and suffered with an underlying back problem for rest of season.
Coe beat Gonzalez 6 times.
Gonzalez was an underrated runner.
Deanouk wrote:
Up to 1990, Gonzalez beat Cram 6 times on the track.
He beat Coe twice; in 83, when Coe was struggling all season with illness, and in 85, Gonzalez’s best year, in the Oslo Mile. Coe had a poor season in 85, missed a month’s summer training prior to that Oslo race, and suffered with an underlying back problem for rest of season.
Coe beat Gonzalez 6 times.
He also appeared to almost give up round the bend when it was clear that Crammy was away, perhaps thinking about his back and the rest of the season. Still managed to run under 3:50 though.
Deanouk wrote:
Coe beat Gonzalez 6 times.
When Gonzalez was ill/struggling with injury.
Gonzalez won a non boycotted global outdoor championship medal over 1500m in 1987. He beat Cram in that final but Cram was struggling with injury as he was in 1984. Gonzalez's best year was arguably 1987 - European indoor champion plus outdoor World Champs silver medal. I am not sure when Gonzalez could have beaten Aouita over 1500m in a major race, tough to say IMHO.
Coevett wrote:
Well I guess the OP didn't state which year? If we are talking about their respective peaks, or a year when both were close to their peaks, I refer you to my previous post regarding Zurich 84.
If we're talking about when Coe was unwell or recovering from injury, and losing to guys like Scott and Gonzalez such as 83 or 85, then obviously Aouita. But then why not Coe vs Aouita in 81? Too bad Aouita wasn't on the peds yet and was running 3:40 in b races, not good enough to even be Coe's pacemaker.
Coe beat Cram in 84, when Aoutia ducked both (and Ovett). Cram beat Aouita in 85. True Cram and Gonzalez beat Coe, but Coe was not at his best. Aouita never had injuries, and when he did take the slightest knock, such as 88 or 90, he was broken. The fact that Gonzalez beat Coe in the Mile race with Cram in 85 shows he was not at his best. He beat Gonzalez handily the next year. Coe had 3 weeks missed training, then raced Cram and Gonzalez almost immediately after only one 800m warm up race. Coe was in better form than Cram early in 85. Both would have likely gone under 3:46 if Coe was fit.
Yes true they both had long careers with peaks and troughs plus Aouita raced over a wide range of distances making comparisons difficult, but I still have to give the nod to Aouita - faster PRs over 1500m/mile plus a global championship medal over 800m suggests he had the speed and specialist endurance to deliver the goods over 1500m.
Aouita had a he very heavy leg injury in 1988 that would have felled most world class runners yet he still soldiered on and managed a bronze over 800m behind 2 of the all time great specialists at the distance - Cruz and Ereng. That performance still blows my mind to this day. But I agree with you in that Ialso think he was on drugs - I feel that Ben Johnson was scapegoat in 1988.
Coevett wrote:
Since you asked wrote:
1976 Emsley Carr Mile.
Yep, when Walker had won Olympic Gold the week before and Coe was still an underdeveloped unheard of teenager yet still managed to give prime Walker a good scrap.
Looking at that race, the 76 trials came just a few weeks too early for him. Of course he wouldn't have medalled or anything in Montreal, but who knows what the experience of an Olympic Games going into Moscow four years later would have had?
Actually it turns out it wasn't the Emsley Carr mile although Coe ran a similar race in that one too.
80s fan wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
Coe beat Gonzalez 6 times.
When Gonzalez was ill/struggling with injury.
Gonzalez won a non boycotted global outdoor championship medal over 1500m in 1987. He beat Cram in that final but Cram was struggling with injury as he was in 1984. Gonzalez's best year was arguably 1987 - European indoor champion plus outdoor World Champs silver medal. I am not sure when Gonzalez could have beaten Aouita over 1500m in a major race, tough to say IMHO.
I agree that Gonzalez is underrated, but you're discrediting your own argument if you are suggesting he was better than Coe. What injury was he suffering from in 86 in Stuttgart? Gonzalez would have beaten Aouita in 87 in the same race he beat Cram and ran the only sub 50 sec final 1500.
80s fan wrote:
But I agree with you in that Ialso think he was on drugs - I feel that Ben Johnson was scapegoat in 1988.
No reason to single out Aouita or Ben Johnson. That was the Wild West back then, with even more people doping than today's 50% or so.
Coevett wrote:
80s fan wrote:
When Gonzalez was ill/struggling with injury.
Gonzalez won a non boycotted global outdoor championship medal over 1500m in 1987. He beat Cram in that final but Cram was struggling with injury as he was in 1984. Gonzalez's best year was arguably 1987 - European indoor champion plus outdoor World Champs silver medal. I am not sure when Gonzalez could have beaten Aouita over 1500m in a major race, tough to say IMHO.
I agree that Gonzalez is underrated, but you're discrediting your own argument if you are suggesting he was better than Coe. What injury was he suffering from in 86 in Stuttgart? Gonzalez would have beaten Aouita in 87 in the same race he beat Cram and ran the only sub 50 sec final 1500.
Did Aouita run in the WC 5000m instead of the 1500m because it was an easier win?