So doped records are bad - but records in spring loaded shoes are OK?

You oversimplified wrote:

Drop a pogo stick on end and a broomstick. Compare the two.

What are the marathon world records for broomsticks and pogo sticks?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Of course doped records are bad, but men winning women's races is far worse than marginal gains from shoes.

+1

More info needed wrote:

You oversimplified wrote:

Drop a pogo stick on end and a broomstick. Compare the two.

What are the marathon world records for broomsticks and pogo sticks?

Don't know who holds the pogo stick record, but I'm pretty sure Lizzy Warren stole the broomstick record off Hilldogs back in December. Prior to that the record was held by plastic Pelosi.

Just another guy wrote:

but why wrote:

not just the tesla with the huge timing board breaking wind drag 15 feet in front of them but the arrow formation of pacers around the runners

not that this attempt is eligible for any world record anyway but what are IAAF (and/or USATF) rules about windbreaking pace cars and pacers ? there has to be something or I suspect we would have already seen a bubble placed around the front elites at major marathons under the excuse of security or something else distracting

oh and don't forget the moped bringing them drinks and gels so they don't have to slow for tables or handoffs, trivial compared to the car but still seconds per 5K

https://youtu.be/lnYp4srEooI

I dont see the advantage

it's all about the füçkïng TESLA. Bunch of NIKE bästårds

Shshhdnnd wrote:

What science demonstrates that running on springs would be beneficial? Basically the runner and his or her shoes is a closed energy loop. Without an external source of energy, shoes cannot create extra energy for the runner.

So if the spring returns more energy, it also requires the runner to produce more energy.

Springs don't create the energy. They return the energy in the opposite direction. without springs, more energy is lost (goes to the ground/turns into heat..ect...

Our barefoot feet also act as springs. When dorsiflexing absorbing energy from the weight of our body, and then while planter flexing releasing it. The tendons in our body are spring-like

here is another easy experiment people can do, when out walking or running, try to keep your heel on the ground through the entire footstrike.

Once you have completed this experiment, you should understand that it takes NO effort to lift the heel off the ground. It happens automatically. A shoe that bounces it into the air for you is not saving you any effort.

Seriously, try it. Hold your trailing heel on the ground as you step forward.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Once you have completed this experiment, you should understand that it takes NO effort to lift the heel off the ground. It happens automatically. A shoe that bounces it into the air for you is not saving you any effort.

Seriously, try it. Hold your trailing heel on the ground as you step forward.

Nobody is saying we don't have springs, the point is that the shoes provide more and enhance the efficiency of what we do have. Moran

You are on the right of thought here.

Its absolute nonsense calling these shoes performance characteristics cheating. Track spikes are a great example of product improvement. We have a been stumbling around with running shoes for years buy mainly just trying to get protective cushioning between you and the ground. We have a lucked out with some foams that give a little more rebound, better breathability and support in uppers and some great knowledge from the minimalist craze and fat mid-soles.

This trend or development in footwear will change on how we look at a shoes ability to enhance performance forever.

Think back to the intro carbon bike frames, oversized tennis rackets and carbon frames, The change in downhill ski shapes and materials, racing swim suits, on and on.

No, it takes less effort because you are already moving, but you still must use your achilles and the foot muscles, if even to a minimal extent, with each foot lift.

Meb's shoes that he wore to win 2014 Boston has similar attributes to the Vaporfly 4% "The Speed accomplishes this with a firm-feel foam and a thermoplastic plate embedded in the midsole, which makes the shoe bounce back quickly.."

http://www.runnersworld.com/shoe/skechers-gomeb-speed-3-mens

If the shoe gives energy at the ground , why does the athlete not have to resist that energy with equal force somewhere else in the gait?

Paul A. Positive wrote:

Urine idiot.

Anyone who is foolish enough to believe the 5 pound running shoes Paavo Nurmi and others wore are equal to today's shoes is more than the vulgar swear words that you used the above post that should be banned by LRC.

If they break 2, the shoes will have little to do with it.

JK's comment is so back-ended, it's almost shameful: "No way in Hell Kipchoge will succeed, but if he does succeed, he will have cheated."

If Kipchoge breaks 2, he will be the first human to run under 2, on his own legs, on his own steam. Then, once the psychological barrier is broken, human kind can think about removing the training wheels and see if the same thing can be done without any special assistance or conditions.

its the same idea as using a trampoline. you don't have to use more energy to jump higher because of the springs...

Bad Wigins wrote:

Seriously, try it. Hold your trailing heel on the ground as you step forward.

Your heel leaves the ground and you roll on to the ball of your foot because you would have to brake (requires energy) to not do that. However, not "bouncing" (e.g. by keeping your foot on the ground, AKA walking) requires less energy but you can't go nearly as fast.

Omnivore wrote:

If the shoe gives energy at the ground , why does the athlete not have to resist that energy with equal force somewhere else in the gait?

it just doesn't work like that, that's why. There's no "equal and opposite" for energy (hint : energy is not a vector quantity).

The thinking here is that the runner loses less energy with each stride than they would wearing some other shoe, so therefore they consume less energy to maintain the same pace, an improvement in running economy.

However, there are legitimate questions about how much of this is truth and how much is hype, especially given that it's a Nike product associated with a Nike marketing stunt.

These is the language of someone who has taken one undergraduate biomechanics class and thinks he's an expert. The confused phrase "supination of the arch" tells you all you need to know.