Help a high schooler out whose coach wants him to run MORE than he is

6 wrote:

optional wrote:

I would encourage him to follow his coach's training. Starting him down the path of not following what his coach wants him to do creates an athlete cannot be coached.

He's also a sophomore, right? Even if he's read all of the books and all of the threads on training in the forum he's never put it into practice.

I would HIGHLY encourage him to do as his coach instructs.

Wait, what? This coach has this kid doing speed three days in a row. Hills is still a speed workout. Tempo is still a hard run. 400m repeats is a speed workout. How about two days between workouts? Once in a while back to back, but every week? I see now why kids break down

Try rereading the OP. That is not what the coach is prescribing, and while there may be too many hard days in a row, it is far more effective than what the coach is prescribing

I think your training plan doesn't include enough "speed" for a high schooler only running 5k. In your plan, the runner would only run at their 5k pace once or twice a week- the uptempo run shouldn't be anywhere close to what you would run in a 5k. Simply doing strides or a fartlek a day or two will not be enough to maintain any speed for cross country. How can a runner run a whole 5k at a pace if, for the whole summer before, they only ran at 5k pace for a few minutes a week? You have to know how to run fast to run fast. Without faster running over the summer as a more major part of the plan, a runner will find themselves forced to "race into shape" during the season- struggling at mid-season meets and not rounding into shape until it is too late. There's not harm in doing strides 3-4 days a week and maybe doing hill sprints another day and a light fartlek another day, as long as its controlled. In order to run a fast 5k, a runner has to know what it's like to run fast and easy at 5k effort- they can't just miraculously pull a great time if they don't train that fast for 2 months. And honestly, doing a bunch of strides isn't going to hurt anyone or lead to overtraining as long as you stick to 6-10x100 with adequate rest.

Kid needs to listen to his coach.

The 'improvement' he had during indoor was just the low hanging fruit that you get from racing 8/15 several times. If he had rolled into outdoor with a better base, maybe his times would have dropped even more.

"During this time I felt great and fell in love with the sport even more and was super excited for outdoor track."

This is the most important point of the kids email! When the kid runs lower, faster mileage he feels great, runs faster and loves it!! What else need be said?

Unfortunately, it sounds like the coach won't listen to what the kid and his body are saying. If, and it is IF, not necessarily WHEN, the kid's times start to plateau, or his body starts to break down, on this type of training plan, then a wise coach should tell the the kid he probably needs to start increasing his mileage and maybe cut back on some of his speed work.

Forcing a 14 -15 year old to run some abstract number of miles NOW, and feel and perform like $hit NOW, for some vague, potential payoff in 3-4 years is ridiculous! It sounds like this kid will end up quitting his team and give up running altogether if he's forced to go back to running 40 miles a week.

Regrettably, many HS running coaches are clueless or stubborn and tell a kid like this that it's "my way or the highway" and the kid is forced to suck it up, perform poorly and eventually ends up hating running. Or, he quickly reads the writing on the wall, quits the team out of frustration, and ends up spending his days playing video games and getting high.

I'm fine with him doing more strides during the week. I just think all summer he doesn't need to be training like he's got an important 5k right around the corner. More speed can be added as the summer comes to an end. I'd rather have him out there learning how to handle more volume, relaxing, then trying to grind away some pace a couple times a week. He needs to enjoy what he's doing and that's hard to do if he is increasing mileage and intensity.

He wrote me back and said his coach has sent some guys to NB nationals so that gives me the belief he's a pretty good coach.

He then sent me this schedule and asked for advice.

Sun-9 miles

Mon- 8x1min at 5k pace with 3 min recover running am 3 miles pm

Tue- 3miles am 6 miles pm

Weds- 3 miles am 12xhill sprints

Thurs- 3 miles am 6 miles pm

Fri- 7 miles pm

Sat 6 miles

***

Only thing I see "Wrong" with it is I would not do the hardest day of the week which looks to be Monday after the longest day of the week. Recovery is needed after the long run on Sunday. Maybe move what is now Satuday to Monday and shift everything else forward.

The other thing I don't see is any day with uptempo running. Running at a faster, relaxed pace and feeling your threshold approaching is a very important skill that I think only comes with practice. Now maybe he can pick it up the back half of his long run, but the very least at least once every other week I'd want so see him trying to run longer and continuous for part of the run. Maybe just put strides after that run instead of doing the hill repeats one week.

Thoughts?

I've actually met kids like this. There's usually two different solutions, A) he's a true 800m runner which would explain the breakdown north of 35-40MPW or B) he's not going slow enough during recovery or needs more recovery to adapt.

I'd tell him to listen to his coach.

Building up to 50 mpw over the summer is not hard. That's < 1 hour per day + 1 long run per week (10 miles at 8 mins/mile is a 80 min run, so he'd avg < 1 hr per day even if he's running pretty slow.)

Like has been said before, I'd just advise him to do some striders 2 - 3X (NOT a bunch of 200 or 400 repeats) per week to stay in touch with his speed.

Wejo, just send him Summer of Malmo.

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/rtp3.htm

What I like about SoM is how open-ended and tweak-able it is. Follow the general principles and concepts, but everything else is mostly up to your discretion.

I agree with wejo on bringing an easy day from later in the week up to Monday to separate the long run from the 5k pace workout. There's no need for 3-4 days of easy running in a row and you could probably use the recovery after your long run. I like the workout at 5k pace- it teaches you how to run that pace without running "hard" as wejo would call it. The only thing I would warn the runner is that it is REALLY easy to get carried away with a workout like that. Don't feel like you have to sprint it and crush the workout because you can- just stay relaxed and run what feels like 5k pace- the workout shouldn't feel all that difficult. Also, remember to do strides or some kind of faster running on a few easy days-it makes a huge difference.

As a parent I have asked the track coach what his credentials are and what training he has.

More often than not the coach will say he's read certain books, etc which is fine but these books are written for adult runners not teens.

The training programs for growing teens is completely different than adults.

Just a suggestion. Been coaching HS and USATF for couple decades and been to Footlocker 4 times now since 2007. Its hard to get kids to buy into this but I think it is huge and it helps when you want to approach your coach. Many may disagree. A very good log book. I mean a dedicated log book. Your writing down, date, time of day, maybe ground type, weather, 3.5 mile Tempo target pace was 5:30, maybe elevation. Little notes how you felt, what food was on board, maybe a nap you took that was one hour before. Maybe HR and rests between sets. Anything you want to record about how you feel your effort was.

Keep it for years. This week a Freshman I have approached me saying that the 6 miler at some different paces I have him do is killing him. He does it alone on a Sunday. We pull his log, cause I am stumped, It is easy pace and I have seen him do it before and he killed it. Eating was right, good rest on board, good ground etc.? I said wait a minute, what dirt road is this. He says Dillar pass, I said what happened to your 6 by your house? Construction goin on so his buddy suggested 17 mile drive up to Dillar. An increase of 1120 feet altitude to 7100 feet. You and your coach can really put things together and adapt and figure stuff out. IMHO.

Again, he needs to listen to his coach.

Just because there aren't days later in the week labeled progressive or tempo doesn't mean it won't happen. Anyone who works with hs kids knows that they will naturally push it a bit some of those days. They need some unstructured time to just run how they feel.

People can nit-pick any program, but it won't help this kid. No HS training plan is ever perfect but this summer plan is well within the boundaries of good/solid. So let his coach run his program.