I used to run in Hokas, now I do most of my runs in racing flats

So you changed your form?

formguy wrote:

So you changed your form?

not so much as changing form but I was relying on the cushioning of the shoes too much to absorb the impact from running. The foot actually is a good shock absorber is you put it to work. But it's hard to do with a shoe like a hoka.

My knees don't tolerate much cushioning at all and haven't been able to for almost 25 years. They're bad but what running I manage is only possible in racing shoes and in pretty flat ones at that.

I used to have chronic knee tendon issues when I ran in normal trainers with typical cushioning. I tried umpteen different shoes, strengthening exercises, custom orthotics, massage, yadda, yadda, and none of it fixed or masked the symptoms. I was about to quit running when I decided to try running in flats only. Knee problems were gone immediately. I haven't looked back after making this switch 7 years ago. In transparency, I did trade knee pain for posterior tibialis tendon pain, but the latter was much less severe and less frequent and I could run through it. Now having tweaked my form, I have had no PTT issues for the past year. For me, 100% flats are the way to go. Good luck.

HRE wrote:

My knees don't tolerate much cushioning at all and haven't been able to for almost 25 years. They're bad but what running I manage is only possible in racing shoes and in pretty flat ones at that.

what shoes are you running in? I'm looking for a racing flat that I can use as a daily shoe that will hold up and it relatively inexpensive. Most of them look like they'll just fall apart from constant use.

do you pronate and is that where the PTT pain originates from? I've deal with PTT and have to wear superfeet inoles or else I get a bad flares up from pronation. What shoes do you wear BTW?

I find Hokas pretty comfortable. My issue is metatarsal stress, not knee pain. Hokas seem to work well to alleviate this issue. I rotate my shoes every day. AM runs are in NB890s, PM runs in Hokas and track stuff in racing flats. No issues thus far.

They're almost all more durable than you'd think. It's usually the cushioning in a shoe that wears out when a shoe wears out so a racer, with almost no cushion, will last a very long time even though it looks flimsy as anything.

The "relatively inexpensive" thing is the kicker. Almost all of them are, in my opinion, massively overpriced for what you get. Look at the New Balance Minimus line for example. The shoes are all a thin piece of rubber with a synthetic upper. There can't be more than a couple bucks worth of material and how much R&D do you need to come up with the idea of a shoe made of a piece of flat rubber and an upper? And they're all priced in three figures. The same is true for the Mizuno Wave Universe and that new one Saucony has out.

I stocked up on the Asics Blazing Fast which was the last reasonably priced racer I could find. They're off the market now, replaced by a "new" version of the Piranha which is essentially the same shoe as the Blazing Fast but at a much higher price. My theory for the name change was that Asics wanted to jack the price up but couldn't come up with a rationale for doing it with the Blazing Fast so they decided that if they gave it a new name no one would notice that it was the same shoe but for tons more money.

I do use the Saucony Kilkenny now and again. If you can run in a cross country flat regularly I think that and the Nike Zoom Streak incarnations are all that are left for reasonably priced racing shoes.

HRE wrote:

I do use the Saucony Kilkenny now and again. If you can run in a cross country flat regularly I think that and the Nike Zoom Streak incarnations are all that are left for reasonably priced racing shoes.

ive never laced up in a cross country flat but im interested in trying things out. I'm assumming these are spikeless shoes? How do they work on asphalt/concrete? I run a mix of dirt/asphalt/concrete.

It's funny that you mention the minimus because that's what I ran in the other day.

I switched to the Hoka Bondi4 and the Clifton for speedwork. So the opposite for me. I wore asics for many years. I still wear flats for racing.

I race in saucony fastwich. My legs are so sore and tired the next day, I have to run in Hoka Cliftons for 6 days until my legs feel good again. As soon as I race in my fastwich again, the same thing happens.

Would my legs be tired and sore if I raced in my Cliftons?

Did you know that the human foot was designed for the purpose of running? Of course maximal shoes are doing more harm than good. Have you heard of the vibram 5 fingers shoes? They are as good as running as running barefoot and they are scientifically proven to prevent injuries!

2010again wrote:

Did you know that the human foot was designed for the purpose of running? Of course maximal shoes are doing more harm than good. Have you heard of the vibram 5 fingers shoes? They are as good as running as running barefoot and they are scientifically proven to prevent injuries!

Yea right, vibram was sued for the very BS claims you are making. Considered maybe the most dangerous product ever to claim to be a running shoe. Be smart get something under your foot.

There's a spiked Kilkenny and a spikeless one. The spikeless one the one I'm talking about. I have run on asphalt and concrete in the Kilkenneys. You definitely know you're not in a cushioned shoe but I have not had any trouble from doing it. It just feels different than any other shoe does. I think the Kilkenny gives the best ride on hard surfaces than any other cross country flat save for the Nike Zoom Streak2 which to me seems more a racing shoe than a cross country flat. That Tesla one someone linked to looks promising. I've never heard of that brand.

faster than 5 years ago wrote:

I race in saucony fastwich. My legs are so sore and tired the next day, I have to run in Hoka Cliftons for 6 days until my legs feel good again. As soon as I race in my fastwich again, the same thing happens.

Would my legs be tired and sore if I raced in my Cliftons?

I'm at the age where flats have no advantage for my 10k racing. I average 5:30 per mile in a 10k, the Cliftons are pretty forgiving , and my ds racers are turning into treadmill only shoes,and track intervals. Do a hard tempo in the Cliftons and see. Visually, I'm a mess because I will at times I wear CEP calf sleeves with my clown shoes.

0/10

Nice try though.

2010again wrote:

Did you know that the human foot was designed for the purpose of running? Of course maximal shoes are doing more harm than good. Have you heard of the vibram 5 fingers shoes? They are as good as running as running barefoot and they are scientifically proven to prevent injuries!

Yeah, we all know that stoneage man ran at least 20 km/day at 4 min/km or faster on asphalt or hard packed dirt roads.

This thread reads like something from Letsrun in 2003.