Didn't Nick Symmonds just have a breakthrough year in the 800? Why would he move up to 1500?

longjack wrote:

the 1500 right now is a crap shoot for a gold medal.

that is if you toss out the algerian.

the 800m is stacked with half a dozen poised to go 141.

after a stab at the world champs where a peak symonds could nab a bronze - then he'll decide about the 1500.

nick is a smart guy. after a season or so as a miler - if he does it- he'll know if he's capable. and a one year stint doing more intense aerobic would hurt his 8 come next OG.

personally i don't see nick as a miler. i don't know any great milers that did not have GREAT aerobic ability.

He ran 336 last year when he was focusing on the 800. 336 already means he is a pretty great miler and with more emphasis on the 15, he can obviously get better.

ventolin^3 wrote:

look at what the majority of elite distance guys have got busted for in past decade - epo or steroids ??

then add in factor that it is also much harder to get a +ve for epo with a 48 hour detection window than steroids nearer 1/52

the use of steroids for distance running has minimal effects compared to epo

Wrong again. Testosterone is the steroid of choice, and it is easier to dope with testosterone + epitestosterone than EPO. Low dose and fast-acting testosterones remain virtually undetectable out of competition. Ditto HGH which remains extremely hard to detect.

You might wish to read

or

ventolin^3 wrote:

the use of steroids for distance running has minimal effects compared to epo

Nobody argues that hematocrit-boosting techniques are the best pure performance boosters in endurance events, but staying injury-free, recovering from injuries, and enduring a very high-volume and high-intensity workload without breaking down are where anabolics cannot be replaced by EPO, blood doping, etc.

I don't think any of them will dominate the 1500m.

Kiprop and Mifhaloui (sp??) are the guys to watch.

Heck even Ingebrigtsen of Norway will soom go sub 3:30!!!!!!

We discuss Symmonds moving up at length in this week's Week That Was:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/02/the-week-that-was-in-running-february-4-february-10-2013/

lol lol lol lol wrote:Wrong again

clueless

Testosterone is the steroid of choice

there is no "steroid of choice" for distance runners

and it is easier to dope with testosterone + epitestosterone than EPO

because it's cheap

& "easier to dope" is nonsense

the test used nowdays is to look for synthetic origin testo, which nullifies any futile attempts to balance the ratio with epi-testo supplements

all testo of pharmaceutical grade is of synthetic origin, so trying to dope with this & trying to evade a +ve is a waste of time

Low dose and fast-acting testosterones remain virtually undetectable out of competition

get a clue

low dose = low effect

Ditto HGH which remains extremely hard to detect

& similarly, it is of mimimal benefit for ditance guys compared to epo

lol lol lol lol wrote:but staying injury-free, recovering from injuries, and enduring a very high-volume and high-intensity workload without breaking down are where anabolics cannot be replaced by EPO, blood doping, etc.

nonsense

anabolics provide NO protection from injury or breakdown

if they did, they woud be legalised & hugely used & a $100s billion/year industry

the ability to train harder & recover is limited by the tensile strength of your ligaments/tendons & bone mineral density, which have no significant increase with steroids

you are likely to break down & get more injuries with heavier workouts from steroids

you do not get any protection from soft-tissue or bony injuries with steroids

So are we just talking about steroids now, or is it still alright to mention that I think this is a good choice? Not because the 800 will be more competitive this year, although I agree it will. It is a good personal choice to move up in events when you are at your best, and can really thrive at a longer distance. If you wait till you start slowing down in your current distance, then it's too late. Not too late to be competitive, successful, ect. Too late to reach your maximum potential.

dfasdfafasdf wrote:

Symmonds is probably just getting bored doing the same thing year after year. Moving up to the 1500 would be very dumb though. He's not a miler.

the 1500 is not a mile

ventolin^3 wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:but staying injury-free, recovering from injuries, and enduring a very high-volume and high-intensity workload without breaking down are where anabolics cannot be replaced by EPO, blood doping, etc.

nonsense

anabolics provide NO protection from injury or breakdown

if they did, they woud be legalised & hugely used & a $100s billion/year industry

the ability to train harder & recover is limited by the tensile strength of your ligaments/tendons & bone mineral density, which have no significant increase with steroids

My Gawd you are stupid. Yes, anabolics, esp HGH increase not only the strength of connective tissue, but far more importantly the speed at which connective tissues recover from microtraumas that typically lead to tendinosis, etc. And yes, anabolics speed recovery from injury, surgery, etc. But of by far the greater importance is their effect on skeletal muscle. Most injuries occur when muscle, in one way or another, is overtaxed. Strength training in distance runners dramatically reduces risk of injury, but has relatively little effect on connective tissue (directly).

Anabolics are already massively profitable, and some of this is "legit" (TRT, antiaging clinics, Oxandrin for HIV wasting, etc), but the most of the profit occurs on the black market as puritanical prohibitionist attitudes prevent greater legitimacy at this time.

Which is sad. There are so many uses for anabolics which could dramatically improve patient outcomes which can't happen now because of these attitudes.

Ventolin: Ever try thinking? It might make people laugh at you less often.

ventolin^3 wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:Wrong again

clueless

Testosterone is the steroid of choice

there is no "steroid of choice" for distance runners

and it is easier to dope with testosterone + epitestosterone than EPO

because it's cheap

& "easier to dope" is nonsense

the test used nowdays is to look for synthetic origin testo, which nullifies any futile attempts to balance the ratio with epi-testo supplements

all testo of pharmaceutical grade is of synthetic origin, so trying to dope with this & trying to evade a +ve is a waste of time

Low dose and fast-acting testosterones remain virtually undetectable out of competition

get a clue

low dose = low effect

Ditto HGH which remains extremely hard to detect

& similarly, it is of mimimal benefit for ditance guys compared to epo

Ventolin: TRY THINKING.

cmon people. You are all smarter than this. Symmonds is still plenty fast. I would venture to say he had the 3rd fastest final lap in that Olympic 800M after Rudisha and Amos and certainly he was fastest runner of everybody in the final 100M.

He just needed to be better keeping in touch with the leaders. Some 1500M training kind of makes sense to improve his 800M racing. But there is no way he should do anything but focus on the 800M through the WC this year.

'anabolics provide NO protection from injury or breakdown'

They might not protect you from getting injured (although that is debatable) but they help you recover more quickly from an injury

With all those negative effects you listed why do people use prescribed and non prescribed (for doping) steroids?

nonsense

HGH causes hypertrophy but NO increase in tensile strength of soft tissue you idiot

the same level of force that will snap a tendon or cause a stress # is the same before or after anabolics

utter drivel

find any reputable journal that states this

idiot

they aid no recovery from injury

they can cause muscle hypertrophy which increases strength, but don't increase rate of healing of any injured soft-tissue

no it doesn't you idiot

anabolics don't offer any protection from injury

get it into your peabrain

if they offered injury protection from injury, they woud immediately be legalised from the huge demand from the military, serious recreational sportsman, joe public going ski-ing, etc

idiot

- TRT is not prescribed for injury prevention but gonadal insufficiency/libido issues/etc

- anti-ageing clinics - complete crap from charlatans

- oxandralone ???

a 50y ole drug to put on weight in emaciateds

it doesn't prevent soft-tissue injuries

no

heroin & cocaine have great analgesic or local anaesthetic properties & their actual form or derivatives are very legally prescribed & used hugely thruout the world for their medically advantageous properties

idiot

you clearly have no clue about another topic again

ukathleticscoach wrote:but they help you recover more quickly from an injury

eh ?

some evidence

With all those negative effects you listed why do people use prescribed and non prescribed (for doping) steroids?

150 pound guy can bench 150

working his butt off + steroids may get him to 300 bench one day

the tensile strength limit of his pectoralis enthesis, before snapping may have been 350 pounds before steroids & it will still be 350 after steroids

it means he can improve a huge amount on dope before he is very likely to injure - all the way to 350 before he will definitely injure

that's because of the very high natural strength of tendons/ligaments & of entheses

steroids let you lift huge, but the ultimate limit is dictated by your inborn soft-tissue strength, which is dependent on size of tendon/ligament at insertion & strength of enthesis - these don't change

Rojo, in the thread asking mods to ban Ventolin until he behaves, or at least delete his comments when he calls people in idiot, you agreed to do this. For some reason you (or mods) deleted that thread, but here he is again calling people idiots. Do we have to mail you each time this happens? Your mods delete completely normal threads all the time, but I see this crap behavior all the time. How hard can it be?

EPO I think is underestimated in the sprints.

Especially the 400m. After 250 meters, the aerobic factor comes into play.

In fact I think most of the sub 44 times are EPO times.

He schooled all the big boys last year (kitum Solomon Osagie lewandowski you get the point) so he's obviously not afraid of anybody. He's just being a bit unadvised

Farah, who is a 5000m and 10000m specialist just ran a 3:28 1500 and he's now running a spring marathon...

Drugs are good these days!