50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Percival wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

No, I wish, running and walking. Probably 30/20 mix, but not bad for my age, but nothing special.

30 is terrific, especially if it’s legit running. Too many hobby joggers think they are runners.

What the heck is legit running? (is it the opposite of illegitimate running? ?). What about fitness running if you're over the half-century mark and are just able to move your body in one continuous motion for a few miles several times a week?

I'm on the short side of 60 with torn tendons, OA & scarred over torn muscle fibers - and run like an 80 yr old man with gas pains (so I've been told by the youngsters in our running club. Lol). And all of these injuries occurred in the name of fitness after 3 1/2 decades of competitive running and training like a madman (I never got the memo that decades of hard, intense training in younger years can have detrimental effects in your older years for many...the gentically gifted anti-agers notwithstanding).

Btw, the scientifically accepted difference between Jogging and running is jogging is defined as going at a pace of less than 6 mph, while running is defined as anything faster than 6 mph (10 min/mile). So, there's probably a lot less "hobby joggers" out there and more legit runners. ?

And speaking of jogging...this is hilarious! ?

*Week 396*

Greetings, 50+ers! And welcome to a few newcomers! Great to see some interesting discussion this past week. I've done well and poorly both in morning and evening races. For me, it's more about outside air temperature than anything else. I've always wilted (relatively speaking) in the heat. As for the question by Allen53...I'd say it's possible, but you can do a check on that, too. What's your mile time? I'd say if you're mile time is around 5:40, a 19:00 5k should be quite doable with improved aerobic conditioning.

On to my week. Sorry to say that I'm still muddling through 3-4 miles of mostly running with some walking. All in the 8:00-9:00/mile pace range. Only made it out for 4 sessions Sun, Tue, Fri, Sat. With good long walks on Mon. and Thur.. Hip was still getting tight after about 2-3 miles for the first several runs this week, but glad to say that I made it 3.5 miles straight yesterday without it tightening up, so maybe we're getting somewhere. As I indicated before, this is going to take a while, but I'm ever optimistic.

That's it from here. Finally got our first snow of the year yesterday. 2018 was the soggiest, by far, on record; 2019 is starting out much the same way. We've had a few clear days, but a lot of overcast and drizzle....reminds me of our years in Seattle.

Hope that you've had a good week. Good luck to those gearing up for Tallahassee in a few weeks!

All the Best!

PS-and on that 20-miler. That's a great distance and sorry that it has fallen out of favor. I've spoken on the 20-mile Syttende Mai race from Madison to Stoughton that used to be the pinnacle road racing in Wisconsin back in the '70's. The Madison Marathon has now relegated this once-regal event to the back stage; race times have eroded accordingly.

I was supposed to be starting a 20-mile race 120 miles from home at this very moment, but I'm not.

I signed up for the race Friday morning, and a few hours later my sinuses started to clog and I started hacking with post-nasal drip. I had planned to jog 4 miles on Saturday before the race so that's what I did, but I was constantly coughing and felt generally lousy. I got everything ready to go for Sunday morning, set my alarm and went to bed early Saturday night, but woke up about midnight drowning in snot and turned off the alarm. After nine hours of sleep I felt much better this morning but it was way too late to make it to the race and would have been a really bad idea anyway. I ran an easy 7 miles and called it good.

This continues a frustrating string of failures to make it to the starting line of long races. I have no problem with half-marathons, but all my recent marathon attempts have ended in either an injury weeks before the race or illness days before. Part of me says I'm being a wimp, I'm not very sick, and I should have just run today. But I doubt I could have run well with constant hacking and probably a general lack of energy, and having a bad race at this distance would have really messed with my head. Even when I was young I did not race when sick, and I probably shouldn't start trying to do so as a 60-year-old.

I ended up with 57 slow miles for the week. On the bright side, I'm no more injured than I usually am and if I feel healthy by next weekend I'll try a 20-mile training run from home.

Grrrrr!

It was another quality week by my standards. Completed 21+ miles of legit hobby jogging. There were a couple of days with some challenging headwinds on the out, but that’s to be expected this time of year. Glutes were a little tired yesterday, so I took a day off from the AARP inspired hip exercises. Too cold for golf, though the courses are still open.

Sun: 52’ jog, body wt ex

Mon: 45’ walk

Tues: 61’ jog, body wt ex

Wed: walk w/ the bride

Thu: 51’ jog, body wt ex

Fri: off

Sat: 52’ jog, body wt ex

Best to most.

Reporting in after being in Chicago and the U.P. for the last three weeks. The weather cooperated and I was able to keep my training going despite having hands that go numb when temps go below 50. I use Hot Hands inside my gloves and put wool socks over them when it's below 20. As far as a time preference for races, give me a morning race any day. I don't like to eat before I race and I want to go out and get it done and not have it on my mind all day.

My training has been going well with mileage at 40+ since the week after Club XC. I've got an indoor mile and 3,000 next weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do since I haven't run a track race for more than two years. Then I'll be off to Tallahassee for XC in early Feb. and a 10 Miler the following weekend. Here was my week:

Sun: 6.6 Easy, 22mi biking

Mon: Off Driving home from Chicago

Tue: 6.0 Easy

Wed: 7.0 Track 3 x 1.5mi @ 10k pace (7:50-7:55), 2200yd swim

Thu: 6.0 Easy, 20mi HARD bike workout

Fri: 6.2 Fartlek 8 x 1H/1E

Sat: 12.0 Easy, 19mi biking

Welcome new contributors!

So sorry about the timing of your cold, amkelley. I think you made a wise decision. Better to fight another day but what a disappointment.

LucKY: Hang in there. I had given myself up for dead last year but kept trying until I found something that works.

Amkelley: Sorry about the race. Hope it’s a cold and not flu. Heard flu is big in California right now.

Tue = 4 miles road with 8 X 1 min acceleration drills with 2 min jog interval, .75 mile warm down

Thr = 4 miles, medium, treadmill

Sat = 4 miles road with 3rd in 6:59 (wind/snow/cold)

Sun = 4 miles, medium, treadmill (roads/trails icy)

We are just finishing off a snow-to-ice-storm here in the mid-Atlantic. I had a good week. Sat I nearly pulled the plug due to the start of the snow. It was 29 with a slight headwind and light snow falling. The ground was still dry. I figured since I was dumb enough to sign up for races on 2/9 and 2/16 I’d better learn to suck it up. I’ll give myself an E for effort as I ran really hard, but just did not go very fast.

Other than being slow, all green lights here, and for that I am thankful.

Have a great week everyone!

Good Morning,

As stated in an earlier post, I spent some time this week re-evaluating my training. This involved first backing out of our indoor track racing series. I really hated to be one more body not in the event, but I needed to consider the cost benefit of my participation. Next ask myself honestly what is my biggest current hurdle? Joints and muscles are fine, speed is adequate, anaerobic endurance OK, but strangely aerobic endurance poor. It seems I get out two to three miles of a run and just have to take a walking break. Also, any elevation at all seems to bring me to a standstill.

So, for the next six cycles my weekly will be one day of tempo like work, one day of hill sprints, a long run, two days of weight training, with the balance easy or off days. The focus will shift away from intensity to the basic foundation of building the aerobic base. This is something that has always come easy until lately. Since my goal is to race distances from 800m to 5,000m I see no need to run more than 50 miles a week, or take long runs greater than a half marathon. The past week I just stepped back, running easy, formulating a plan that will hopefully break the funk cycle.

Igy

Hey Igy get the base rebuilt. I can say that cause I tried doing it the other way for 2 years. It was ok but like you said no endurance.

My approach is to continue polarized training but dial down vo2max and dial up easy by running some miles instead of just walking. Instead of vo2max I am doing either easy tempos and short reps with full recovery less stress on the body while maintaining my speed.

AMK good call over the long haul.

Well took a recovery week which worked well.

3 recovery runs at 40-50 percent of mhr 24,24 and 30 minutes

3 regular runs at 50-65 percent of mhr 40 minutes each

1 track day reps 4 x 400 101, 86,82,80 jog a lap rest the 1:41 was an acceleration 30,28,25,23

pleased with this as I have done almost no fast stuff over the last 4 months I guess this is a glass half full kinda thing. I can run fairly fast off little training just can't hold the pace for very long. Anyhow I am probably right at 6 minute shape for the mile. I will do another track 5000 tempo in a few weeks looking for a big improvement over the last one 21:26 at 162bpm.

Keep on getting in daily runs just going by feel but all pretty easy effort. My base is definitely way better.

Relative to some of the earlier discussion, at 69 I now count walking (at about 14:30/mi pace) as recovery running, and my HR monitor generally shows that I am at an appropriate HR for recovery effort. For all of us who remember being much faster in years past it takes some humility and reorientation of thinking to adjust to the reality that running every day may no longer be the best training approach and that walking can be running training. That said, I got another week of my base training plan completed in good order. 53 miles for the week.

M- 8 hills 8:31/mi ave

T- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

W- 8 hills 9:09/mi ave

Th- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

F- 8 hills 8:27/mi ave

S- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

Su- 8 hills 7:55/mi ave

Good health and good training to all!

Charlie and old guy II,

Orienting one’s approach can be challenging since you can become chained to your past. Walking has become a preferred easy day. However, at this stage of conditioning even the light day of four miles walking can compromise the following day’s longer or more intense effort. My wife reminded me how I tend to push myself to counterproductive extremes. Next week I plan to incorporate two easy days of 2 miles walk/run followed by 30 minutes of core/weight lifting, and Sundays off.

Igy

old guy II wrote:

T- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

Th- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

S- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

I've been meaning to comment on how intelligent this is. Both slow-twitch and fast twitch are getting activated. Good lesson for all!

Rtype wrote:

old guy II wrote:

T- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

Th- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

S- 7 walk with about 150M stride every 1/2 mi

I've been meaning to comment on how intelligent this is. Both slow-twitch and fast twitch are getting activated. Good lesson for all!

Thanks. I ended up with this as a combination recovery and speed training day through a trial and error process as I was rehabbing from my runner's knee injury. I started with a recovery walking day between easy runs and I wanted to get back to some high end work in very small bites. I first tried running strides every mile and that felt like too much time, so I tried every 1/2 mile and that feels just right. I get about 6-7 minutes walking between the strides which feels like full recovery plus another minute or so. For the strides I try to accelerate to just about the maximum turnover rate I can generate (245-250 steps per minute), hold it for a few seconds without straining and then coast out of it. When I'm feeling tired the strides probably get down to about 80 meters and when I'm feeling fresh they probably go close to 200 meters. It definitely has restored my top end speed and kick at the end of races.

Thank you for the added detail, very helpful. I have a group of running friends who assume they will never get faster, so they keep moving up the distance. Now they are ultra-runners. They really don’t want to hear that some sprinting can really help. They just mime back….”speed kills”….and never try.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I was a runner, I have been relegated to hobby jogger status of late.

Haven't we all!!!

Re: the 90 year old cyclist. I didn't know it until I read an article in our newspaper last week, the guy is local. And the consensus is he's just a darn good older biker that would never knowingly take a performance enhancing substance. The USATF admitted it was from tainted meat!?!? So where is the problem and why was this guy called out? Geez there was no one else in his age group! And he's 90!!!!

I had a solid week. A tad over 56 miles with two sort-of workout days. I added some strides to Wednesdays 8 miler, 60 sec @ 6:00 pace at the 3/4 point of each mile. Saturday I did 12 with 2:00 at CV pace (6:15) at 2,4,6,8 & 10 miles. Everything else steady 8:00'ish pace. And...I had to look back but discovered this was my highest mileage week since July of 2017. Kind of pathetic but I guess that's a good start.

May try to front-load my upcoming week to keep the miles up. We'll be spending next weekend upNorth and its supposed to be nasty cold. Thinking about running a HM on Feb 24. I ran it last year with a veteran soldier and carried a huge flag to honor my nephew killed in Afghanistan. That was tough! I'll run without a flag this year.

Dave

welcome (back)! I well remember your contributions to masters weekend runs and races and your great training/racing/coaching accomplishments. Very glad to hear you're feeling better after health scare. I had a fun week of training incl. our first notable snow of the Winter. M 1:50 with a few pickups Tu 1:25 W 1:50 double Th 1:30 with 3 X 3:00 hard hills (2:00 recovery) + 10:00 recovery + 3 X 4:00 (3:00 recovery) at 10K pace F 1:30 x-training Sa 1:20 + 30:00 x-t Su 2:00 with 20 mins. late at marathon pace Long run this morning was half slip-sliding in snow [had a good back and forth going in rock creek park with x-c skiers, who would glide past me on down grades and labor up hills], then half indoors on treadmill for better footing. have a great week, Dave

Johnny Rotten wrote:

I’m just 53. Was running 100mpw and still reasonably quick until age 42, when coaching took over my life completely. As for the DVT: worst pain I’ve ever felt. I’d wondered, too, why I couldn’t breathe very well for the previous couple of months. Thought it was walking pneumonia! I feel normal now.

HNY masters pals,

Not been posting much but read YOUR posts for inspiration every week...and for that am grateful.

Running has been more of a spectator sport for me the past few months...oh yes, I do a daily 'jog-a-thon' but only to the tune of 25 miles per week as am in foot surgery avoidance mode...and have been for a year or more.

Speaking of spectating, I've included the upcoming indoors TV schedule here for your viewing pleasure. Personally, am attending just two BIG meets this year...NCAAs in Austin, TX and then Prefontaine Classic which shall be at Standord (6/30) in 2019 while Hayward Field is being 're-imagined'...how about you? Attending any biggies in 2019??

http://www.usatf.org/calendars/TVSchedule.aspx

stay well,

MF

Gold solid gold:

https://youtu.be/oUvMrHZwOZQ

I'm certifiably not legit as a runner, but try hard anyway. But that doesn't make any difference either because it's haven't you heard, it's all genetics after 50. Nothing else matters.

I got in a little over 50 this week, plus a classic ski of about 20K (@ 5 min Ks). Missed a day (Thursday because I had a cold and felt like it was about to turn to sick, like sinus infection level). So rested instead and have bounced back reasonably well.

It snowed like crazy on Friday. I ran easy in the snow yesterday, but was soft today and did 15 on paved bike paths--forgive me oh Tough Lord for I have sinned. I'll have to atone next week and run up Mt Evans through 7 foot snow drifts at 12,000 feet!

Sarcastically yours,

Coyote (Snark is my middle name) Montane

Have a good week!