Prefontaine v. Crooks and the American High School 2 Mile Record

I find no record in documents from the 1960s of Gerry Lindgren running 4:01.5 for a mile while in High School. I have "The Gerry Lindgren Story" which was bublished as Runner's World's "Booklet of the Month" No. 6 in 1971. On page 19 it shows Gerry's times through the years. For the mile it shows 4:06.0 in 1964 while 18, 4:02.4 (PB) in 1967 at age 21 and 4:04.1 in 1968 at age 22. I have been informed that the information in the Booklet was carefully researched. I also could not find any mention of a 4:01.5 mile in "Gerry Lindgren's Book on Running". If you provide me with the race and place that time was supposedly run it can be checked further.

By the way, half an hour after Gerry ran that great 13:44 on June 5, 1964, in that Classic 5000 meter race in Compton, Jim Ryun, then age 17, ran a mile in 3:59.0.

Also, don't forget that tracks in those days were made of

dirt or cinders. The inside lane could become quite chewed up in long races.

Great thread and great info, thanks!!!

Sure beats the other "Favorite Fastfood" or other mundane topics.

It is fun to relive the past but we are way off topic. By the way, I know or knew 5 of the 11 runners in that great 5000 meter race in Compton in 1964.

Some of you are aware of Patrick Hoffmanns 880, mile and 2 mile lists as well as some XC info and other things. For those who are not, I’ve put the links. You won’t find times run after 2003-2004. It's a handy group of lists and is pretty accurate but there may be some omissions, he was always updating it with new-found info.

All Time US High School Milers

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/milers1.htm

US High School Distance Gods

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods.htm

Patrick Hoffmann was a grad student at U. Mass and after finishing his Phd., moved on and left these pages as you find them today.

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/

“Perhaps my chioce of words should have been "two of the best" as opposed to "the two best". That said, does the name Mike Hahn show up anywhere down either one of those lists you got your info from?”

Is this the (Mike Hahn, Benson 1967) that you mean? After a quick look through the lists I didn’t see him.

2 mile list only goes up to 9:08.7

1 mile list stops at 4:13.2

According to the Washington state track and field annual, the 4:01.5 was at an international pre-Olympic meet at Kingston, Jamaica in August 1964.

Track and Field News recognized performances through Aug. 31 as being part of a high school season, so it's listed as a high-school record in Washington state.

Thanks for pointing that out Bill. I have updated my records. The one thing I remember the most about Lindgren was that all races he was in were thrillers and fast. He always insisted in leading no matter who was in the race.

Thanks for posting these websites. It is too bad these have not been updated in almost six years as I know there are numerous changes and additions that could be made. I thought Hahn was Benson '69. If indeed he was '67, that could account for some of my confusion. From what this thread has revealed, it would appear that Lindgren, overall, is kind of in a class by himself when it comes to high school accomplishments...followed closely by Webb and Ryun...and Fernandez last year!

Nyekee wrote:

From what this thread has revealed, it would appear that Lindgren, overall, is kind of in a class by himself when it comes to high school accomplishments...followed closely by Webb and Ryun...and Fernandez last year!

I would put Ryun slightly ahead of Lindgren for high school accomplishments and significantly ahead of Webb.

WOW! You guys remember so much!

The 4:01.5 was run in Kingston Jamaica at the same time I did the 13:17 three mile record. I doubled back in the mile.

and

ONE MORE LAST TIME I WAS A SENIOR A SENIOR A SENIOR WHEN I RAN 8:40 INDOORS FOR TWO MILES. Jim ryan, who fell at the start of the race, got up off the floor and finished in second place. I thought his recovery was much more awe inspiring than my race. He must have been half a lap behind everyone when he got back to his feet. To chase everyone down like that must have been something special to see. The reason I did not have a time for two miles outdoors was that there WAS NO two mile outdoor. The two mile in track was instigated right after I left. Rick Riley, the great high school two-miler was the FIRST high school outdoor 2-mile record holder in Washington State. It was a new event.

And about PRE. Do you know how Pre got into running? I was visiting friends in Reedsport, 15 miles up the coast from Coos Bay. Their son had just made the regional junior soft-ball team and his friend Pre didn't. Pre was all broken up over it so I ran down to Coos Bay to cheer him up.

Pre himself opened the door. "Hey!" he said. :You're Gerry Lindgren. I know you. You're fameous! You're so tiny. You're just a wimp. I could beat you. I'm gonna start running and I'm gonna kick your ass. I'm taller than you. You're just a runt. I'm gonna kick your ass....."

At that I turned and ran back up to Reedsport, having not said a single word to Pre. Pre told me later that he ran in and put on his sport shoes and chased me up the highway. I never looked back so I didn't see him. If I had turned around, taken even the tiniest look back, I could have been the first person ever to see Pre run. But I was so put off by his boastfulness I didn't even think to look.

Now we are aware of the danger of high mileage on high school runners brains.

It is good to hear from you Gerry. Thanks for the info and the stories. Although I was not running anywhere near your level in the 60s and 70s or anytime thereafter, I did take many long training runs with Bruce Kidd and then after Tokyo, Ron Larrieu. As for memory, I cheat. I have many books and documents to enhance my rapidly fading memory. Even though, it was so long ago many memories are very clear. I just remebered that I have met both you and Jim Ryun! Ron Carke too! Please keep posting when you have additional facts and stories to tell.

This is a great thread, lets not ruin it with personal attacks on a great runner.

Lindgren's 4:01 is fairly common knowledge and stood as the HS record for all of one year and after taking Tom Sullivan's 4:03 down 2 seconds. Sullivan's time was (IMHO) a much underrated and "under acknowledged" record - gets lost in the hub bub of recent accomplishments. 4:03 in 1961 was incredible.

Back to Lindgren's 4:01, TFN has referred to it numerous times, as has numerous internet (reliable-is that possible?) sites. IMHO one of the more underestimated performances by Lindgren. In addition to Gerry's post and Hoffman's list it demonstrates his versatility. His personal struggles aside Lindgren was perhaps the most accomplished American runner, certainly in HS. Misfortune in the '64 Olympics may have cost him a medal, if not the gold. Wasn't to be. Instead we have Mills legendary accomplishment - still one of the most amazing feats in (USA) distance running lore.

If anyone had seen Lindgren as a HS athlete they would have been alarmed at his almost anorexic body type - a bruiser not.

Another little known fact is that I beat Gerry in a one mile race in 1974-5(?) in Oxnard, Ca when each of us were 'retired' (I guess). It was an epic confrontation and mostly a story I can embellish to my grandkids. Nowhere near 4:01.

Too many in this thread seem to be obsessing on who ran what when ... That's not really the point. For my money, Gerry was the best high school two-miler bar none.

The difference between the truly great and those of us privileged to have run well has always been a desire that is beyond most of us; a consciousness that allowed these greats to dig deeper than anyone else in every workout and every race.

If we could line everyone up today, as if they were high school seniors, Gerry would win a damn good race--I believe--because no one then or since could match his desire at the high school level. Pre would probably run third behind Fernandez, and I wouldn't waste my money betting on any other placers if we could assemble a field that included Riley, Virgin, Bjorkland, Rupp, etc.

Myself? Well, I'd like to think I would have been invited--it really would have been a fun race.

Great post Doug. I agree with your assessment on the all-star 2 mile race . . . do you still run?

GerrytheJanitor wrote:

Pre himself opened the door. "Hey!" he said. :You're Gerry Lindgren. I know you. You're fameous! You're so tiny. You're just a wimp. I could beat you. I'm gonna start running and I'm gonna kick your ass. I'm taller than you. You're just a runt. I'm gonna kick your ass....."

I seem to remember Pre looking shorter than Lindgren in the various Pre/Gerry race photos in Pre! Pre in early highschool was even more a runt than as a college frosh. I'm doubtful.

Running is difficult on these older joints (not to mention knee surgery following a skiing accident)...but, I've become an avid convert to road cycling. Track and field continues to give back to me year in and year out, whether it is going to a meet (the Jordan Invitational this weekend) or helping bring back track and field to Oregon State.

Yes, Mark Highfield ran against Prefontaine in our Tri-Met Cross Country competitions. I was the XC and Track team Manager in '68-'69 and had the pleasure of watching him and his brother Mike run meets. Kid was cool. No ego at all and a heckuva runner.