in defense of the treadmill article

"And though I respect and admire the Hanson philosophy, I tend to believe it ignores that idea of individuality inherent in every distance runner."

any thoughts on that statement?

why do you need to defend the article? it is great.

It's about time someone had a little common sense about the advantages of treadmill training. I have always thought running outside was very boring (same routes year after year) and it is much more enjoyable getting your workout in watching a good program or movie on tv.

I used to hide the fact that I snuck into the gym to run on the treadmill when the weather was lousy (typical here in central Illinois), but I have noticed lately more and more runners doing the same thing. Justin makes some good points about the machine forcing you to do workouts that you likely wouldn't do on the road by yourself. It does allow for individuality, even in a group setting. I have had workouts at the gym with another runner and each of us is doing our own thingbut are still running right next to one another.

Funny I have the opposite reaction to training on a treadmill. You say that the TM allows you to run at a pace that won't overwhelm you. I typically commit to a TM pace before I run and will stick to it regardless how I feel because of my pride. If I say my moderate pace is 5:36/mile, and I will run that for 45 minutes, then I will stick to that pace unless I have some German Fernandez-like injury. If I do slow down it will be very slight, like down to 5:40 miles, and I'll hate myself for pussying out, question my training that made 5:36 miles so painful, and lose confidence in my fitness.

If I were alone outside doing this workout, I'd slow down fairly imperceptibly rather than kill myself, and then get a little disappointed when I realize I wasn't going as fast as I thought. If I were training with a group I'd probably just get dropped by that group, and I'd probably believe they were running faster than 5:36 pace.

In fact I use the treadmill precisely because it's easier to kill myself.

Very bad wrote:

Funny I have the opposite reaction to training on a treadmill. You say that the TM allows you to run at a pace that won't overwhelm you. I typically commit to a TM pace before I run and will stick to it regardless how I feel because of my pride.

So...um... Don't do that.

Easier said than done.

He/she has a good point. Because it's difficult - it's a good training tool. Sign of a good runner.

The Hansons team does negative split tempo runs on the treadmill when the weather in Michigan sucks, and I think they've run a few good marathons.

1) There is some validity that at faster paces the incline increase equates the energy expenditure of running outside. At slow speeds it does not hold up. I think at the speeds he is running, that would be a consideration, but I also think the amount is pretty small.

2) Treadmills can be inaccurate. I spent 2 years keeping treadmills calibrated in a lab and in a campus fitness center. It is pretty easy to do and if it is a home unit that is not used all that much (compared to a fitness center), then calibrating once a year should be sufficient. If I were to buy one, then I would calibrate it at the start. All you need is a tape measure and stopwatch for speed. (You should also calibrate the incline as well).

3) While I have never thought treadmills were for "fake runners", until recently I had not used one regularly. I take the opposite approach in doing shorter, higher intensity runs on the treadmill. Running more than about 45 min on the TM is very boring to me. I have plenty of routes I can run outside (and no 30 min limit!).

4) I suspect the blogger is defensive and needs to develop a spine. You do what you need to do. Screw what others think.

How do you figure he needs to develop a spine? He's run 2:13 marathon. I think his spine has developed okay.

Also, if you read the article, I think he said it's not particularly important how exactly accurate the treadmill is - unless it's way off or something ridiculous....it's an individual thing. If you can measure one workout to the next, then it can be an effective tool despite whether or not it's perfectly accurate.

You had me until the spine comment. Don't understand why you'd say that.

I think he meant the spine comment in relation to feeling the need to have to "defend" his treadmill use in the first place. The fact that he's run a 2:13 marathon actually makes it all the more true, from his point of view.

Not saying I agree with him.

Ken Martin (a 2:09 marathon) did most of his summer training on a treadmill in his basement as he lived in Houston, TX where its very hot during the summer (even early in the morning) and seems to have worked well for him. He was the best American marathoner for a few years.

Older but wiser wrote:

Ken Martin (a 2:09 marathon) did most of his summer training on a treadmill in his basement as he lived in Houston, TX where its very hot during the summer (even early in the morning) and seems to have worked well for him. He was the best American marathoner for a few years.

The question is how fast would he have run if he did all of is training outside? I believe he would have dropped at least a 2:07. The treadmill obviously held him back.

The Elliptical Runner wrote:

The question is how fast would he have run if he did all of is training outside? I believe he would have dropped at least a 2:07. The treadmill obviously held him back.

No matter how fast you run, there will be those who think you could have done better "if" you did something else. You can't satisfy everyone, that's for sure. I'd say Ken Martin did exactly what he believed worked for him.

I've done treadmill only training and it is a bit different fro running outside. Mainly because you tend to learn to overstride on the treadmill. Since training outside my style has changed a bit. Non the less you can get fit from the treadmill. I did 20 minute runs or 4 minute intervals in my early running days and got in wonderful shape doing them. When i ran 4 days a week 20 minutes at 6 min/mile i was capable of running 5 km in 16'40sh. that is without any real running (not to brag because i also did cross-training). However i did not have the speed to run a 5 minute mile back then on such fitness. I guess you still need to train outside if you want to get optimal running fitness. But you can still improve on running on the treadmill that is how i think of it from my treadmill experiences.

thats odd. i find that the treadmill has the exact opposite effect on me. i learn to keep my stride length shorter with higher frequency. this becomes a huge plus when i go out on the roads

I have used treadmills for a few years (started in 1960) and also coached Kenny for a number of years. He did a bunch of 2 hour (20-mile) runs on his treadmill in Santa Fe, NM also, leading up to his 2:09+ in NY City. I remember thinking that a 2:09 run must feel quite brief & maybe even pleasant compared with the concentration required to stay on that thing for 2 hours a bunch of times. I have also tested many runners on many treadmills and have yet to see any real change is stride rate or running mechanics as some think happens. No question the cost of a specific speed (say 6:00 pace for example) is less on a calibrated treadmill, compared with overground running, but one could argue that just doing the work is what really matters. Sometimes you may want to run at a specific pace, other times you just want a solid challenge.

jtupper,

would you know any specifics as to Kenny did for workouts on the treadmill, besides the 2hr long runs you mentioned?

just curious

Thanks!

I have many workouts designed for treadmill workouts, and he would do some, but mostly just his weekly 20miler, which was generally at 2% and 10MPH, so nowhere near marathon race pace, but it was at altitude. Still not equal to threshold pace at sea level. The more intense stuff was more on and off things, at quite demanding workloads.