Cruise Intervals

I once read a book by Ron Daws (1968 Olympian, Marathon) where he did 10x1mile.

Alan

The cruise intervals would be a better fit if you wanted to enhance high-end aerobic power. However, tempo runs as you define them are a tried and true way to increase stamina and threshold capacity. They're closely related workouts ... depends whch systems you're most interested in developing. Hard to say one is better than the other for a marathoner ... depends who the marathoner is, eh?

Both are good, but some runners prefer tempo to cruise intervals. Most mileage at threshold I've had a marathoner run in a single session is 15 -- 5+4+3+2+1. A good way is also to do 4 miles threshold (steady 4 or 2X2 or 4X1) followed by 10 miles easy run and another 4 miles at threshold pace (those last 4 give you a feel of how things are later in a marathon, when glycogen stores are getting low, and you are gettung a little fatigued. Play with different combinations and see how you react. 20 miles with 4-8 of it at threshold pace probably deplets carbohydrate fuel equal to what a considerably longer easy run would.

jtupper;

Thanks for the reply. Amazing that someone actually did 15 miles worth of threshold pace work in one session. This morning I did the 8 x 1600 @ T w 1 min recovery and it was plenty enough for me (even though I'm hitting 100 mile weeks). I definately will try the 4T-10E-4T as I get further into my next marathon preparation. May have to start it as a 2x2T-10E-2x2T and work my way into the straight 4T's the second time around. Thanks for the ideas and the great books.

MTH

jtupper, could you define "threshold" once and for all?

Actually, 2X2 + 10 miles + 2X2 is a good way to start, or steady 4 + 10 + 2X2 is also pretty good. Regardng the question about defining threshold pace, I imagine there are numerous definitions out there. When I calculate it I use 88% VO2max, and refer to it sujectively as "comfortably hard." If monitoring it with lactate data I think of it as the pace, during which periodic lactate values would not be increasing nor decreasing over time -- a steady blood lactate value, which could be 3 or so mmole, or over 7. That's why I like to just use a fraction of VO2max (rather than a specific lactate value)-- less variability among individuals than are lactate values.

jtupper wrote:

Both are good, but some runners prefer tempo to cruise intervals. Most mileage at threshold I've had a marathoner run in a single session is 15 -- 5+4+3+2+1. A good way is also to do 4 miles threshold (steady 4 or 2X2 or 4X1) followed by 10 miles easy run and another 4 miles at threshold pace (those last 4 give you a feel of how things are later in a marathon, when glycogen stores are getting low, and you are gettung a little fatigued. Play with different combinations and see how you react. 20 miles with 4-8 of it at threshold pace probably deplets carbohydrate fuel equal to what a considerably longer easy run would.

Dr. Jack, do you have any conversion estimates or comparisons of a slow long run versus long runs with speed included? For instance, a 20 mile run with 8 miles T Pace is roughly the same equivalent as running 26 miles...

I do; just gotta find where I stored it

email jack.daniels@nau.edu

Dr Jack,

About 7 weeks ago I ran 2.43 in the Seoul marathon. Most of my buildup was based on a lot of the tempo work that you suggest in your book Daniels Running Formula.

I loved doing sessions such as 4 x 6 minutes tempo-60 minutes tempo-4x6 minute tempo. And my body absorbed those type of workouts really well.

My next marathon will be in November, so I plan to have a 6 month buildup, commencing on May 20th. I intend to follow your elite training plan, with the goal being to go sub 2.40.

Regarding this thread about cruise intervals, is it a good idea to do cruise intervals (alternating with tempo runs) once a week early on in the base phase provided I hold back slightly?

Regards

The Monk

As usual, great info from Dr. Jack.

Many thanks.

Always good to rely on types of training that you respond well to or have produced good results for you in the past. I like mixing easy runs with threshold and/or marathon-pace runs, with the result being a long run that has some vsriation in pace. In that 6-month prep, include some solid interval (even rep) sessions now and then, and a few races, both of which make thresold and MP seem more comfortable. Threshold or MP runs after an hour or so of easy running give you a good feel for how those latter miles in the marathon are. Putting threshold running as a leadup into some easy miles makes your body feel and react like the easy run was a lot longer than it really was

I have never done MP at the end of easy miles. Does this work after 45 min easy? 30? Also, you mention this makes MP and LT more comfortable. Why is this, hysiologically?

Thank you so much for your reply Dr Jack.

Just run baby, don't get so technical.

I think this sort of fits. A few key workouts are...

3x2mi at Half Marathon Pace (400m rec)

4x2mi HMP

5x2mi HMP

I usually do this progression every other week during marathon prep. Between these I do 3x3mi MP, 4x3mi MP.

jtupper wrote:

Actually, 2X2 + 10 miles + 2X2 is a good way to start, or steady 4 + 10 + 2X2 is also pretty good. Regardng the question about defining threshold pace, I imagine there are numerous definitions out there. When I calculate it I use 88% VO2max, and refer to it sujectively as "comfortably hard." If monitoring it with lactate data I think of it as the pace, during which periodic lactate values would not be increasing nor decreasing over time -- a steady blood lactate value, which could be 3 or so mmole, or over 7. That's why I like to just use a fraction of VO2max (rather than a specific lactate value)-- less variability among individuals than are lactate values.

Less variability among individuals with a percentage of VO2max, but still a lot of variability surely?

So many confusing and conflicting definitions. The 2x2 + 10 + 2x2 must surely be around 3 mmols for an athlete training for a marathon, whereas an 800m runner might run 10 minutes at a steady 10 mmols.

What I am saying Jack, is that the word Threshold is one I won't use to describe training.

One way to figure this out would be to just go outside and run. If you've never run a 5 mile "tempo run" at any speed then it's going to be a little uncomfortable, while someone who has been running these types of runs for a while could do a 5mi tempo, rest, 4mi tempo, rest, etc as prescribed by Jack above. As a personal example, I once did a lot of mile repeats at "half marathon effort". First time was 6xmile with 1:00 rest, next time was 8xmile. For a while this was enough. It got easier, so I went up to 10xmile then 5 x 2mi. You see Brian Sell do 2 x 6mi in 29-30 minutes, that doesn't mean you should try 2 x 6mi on a lark. Above all, train by and learn from your OWN experiences, NOT the experiences of others. While the successful training of others can give you ideas it is up to you to see if they work and to change if need be.

Alan

At the risk of highjacking this thread, Dr. Daniels: I am a HS coach in Texas and our girls still run 3200/2 miles. Would you recommend the 1500/3k training plan for them as opposed to the cross country plan outlined in your 2nd edition?

Thanks a lot.