play all day wrote:
Huh? Someone's feelings are heart and needs an apology? You want to be vindicated because many Americans are dying and that makes you happy? As a side note, pretty sure Covid 19 deaths in the US will account for only about 5% of all deaths and most other causes are preventable where this one is not.
Dumb analogy, as most other leading causes of death are not contagious.
Facts Matter? wrote:
now's the time wrote:
Why did you change the goal post from this years flu to the 2017 flu?
so many of your posts were of the '23,000 is still MORE THAN 41 ! ! !' variety until recently
I changed nothing I have been making the exact same points from the start.
What I get asked determines with what and how I respond.
Point1: The flu kills more people than the coronavirus
My proof: 61,000 people died from the flu in the 2017,2018 season
Point 2: No one panics as the flu is killing people.
My proof: Right now the flu has killed 24,000 people compared to 5,100 from the coronavirus and no one gives a sh!t. Everyone is worried about the thing that has killed less people.
Then I added one a few weeks ago
Point 3: 155 children age 0-4 have been killed by the flu and no one panics.
Proof: The CDC website which I won't link again for the 100th time
I was asked a while ago at what point I would admit I was wrong, so I'm well on record. The answer then was the same as it is now. If the coronaviorus kills 61,001 people.
Where people are objecting is that flu season lasted 8 months. COVID season is only at 2 in the US.
Saying 61k is all that matters is like saying a few days into the baseball season "Yankees only won 11 games, when they really sucked compared to last year when they won 96".
The apples/apples comparison is when both viral seasons are over. You tally up total number dead + total number with serious complications from each and go from there. 2017-18 flu is over. COVID isnt.
The concern with 61k being all that matters, is that it means that you dont treat any disease as worse than the flu, until it's already worse than the flu. This would be a good strategy for linear things, but for exponential things, things that take time to shutoff, or things that lag behind then you can get in major trouble waiting.
land of enchantment wrote:
play all day wrote:
Huh? Someone's feelings are heart and needs an apology? You want to be vindicated because many Americans are dying and that makes you happy? As a side note, pretty sure Covid 19 deaths in the US will account for only about 5% of all deaths and most other causes are preventable where this one is not.
Dumb analogy, as most other leading causes of death are not contagious.
Btw, let's not forget it's just about death. Yes, if you catch it, it's extremely unlikely to kill you, but there may be long-term impact. In HK, we have tens of patients who have recovered but showed signs of pulmonary fibrosis, including several cops.
George213 wrote:
land of enchantment wrote:
Dumb analogy, as most other leading causes of death are not contagious.
Btw, let's not forget it's just about death. Yes, if you catch it, it's extremely unlikely to kill you, but there may be long-term impact. In HK, we have tens of patients who have recovered but showed signs of pulmonary fibrosis, including several cops.
not just about death
Giles Corey wrote:
Harambe wrote:
My offer for a FREE algebra I textbook for any covid denialist still stands.
Exponential growth is not JUST for geniuses like me anymore!
Says the guy who buys the MSM official narrative with no skepticism. Even doing the establishment's bidding by calling those who are skeptical "denialists", a tactic implanted in your brain by that same establishment
Open to this MSM argument, but I need a why, a mechanism. So far I just keep hearing it's a government/media narrative.
I could see, almost, how this could be a left narrative to smash trump. Generate tons of fear, crash the economy, pin it all on Trump. Easy 2020 win even for Biden.
However, what's the incentive for Trump? He's up for re-election. The last thing he would seem to want is to tank the market, destroy the economy, etc. How does this benefit him?
Moreover, how does it benefit nations worldwide? They are doing similar measures and struggling with similar COVID issues.
There has to be a purpose, a gain, from a worldwide media conspiracy. What is it? So far looks like there are obvious losers and winners, and different media would be incentivized to push different narratives, but your claim is MSM worldwide is pushing same narrative. Need a mechanism and reasoning here.
Parsec wrote:
There has to be a purpose, a gain, from a worldwide media conspiracy. What is it? So far looks like there are obvious losers and winners, and different media would be incentivized to push different narratives, but your claim is MSM worldwide is pushing same narrative. Need a mechanism and reasoning here.
A few weeks ago, I was pretty comfortable with the notion that the MSM had obvious rewards in pushing hard the exponential growth, completely ignoring the realities of epidemiological curves, etc etc, mostly etc. Their short term reward was eyeballs, and there'd be no long term consequences to MSM if MSM was wrong.
Meanwhile there seemed to be an obvious reward to Trump side for mocking the MSM take as overblown -- and given the typical MSM sensationalism this would likely be true -- and then to reap the rewards of being right as his best shot at winning 2020. And I think both sides played this rationally and arguably correctly.
As to the rest of the world acting in concert to get rid of Trump ... to me that seems pretty unlikely so I choose not to believe it in the absence of evidence to the contrary.
Some of those numbers coming through right now are absolutely terrible.
Florida could have an awful time given the behaviour there over the last few weeks and the demographics of the state.
UsedToBeKnowItAll wrote:
there are extremists saying a lot of stupid things that underestimate the pandemic, and at the same time, inflate the impact on their personal freedoms and the economy.
Definitely. And if anything, we know less about the long term economic outcomes than we do about health outcomes.
Another problem is that anyone that thinks the government's reaction is excessive, even just a little bit, takes offense at being called a "denier". And so they come on here to complain about the exaggerators on the opposite end of the spectrum.
It's offensive, because it's inaccurate and it's dangerous. Taking an extreme term and applying it to a large group of people with non-extreme opinions who happen to disagree with you ... that's not great.
We're all complaining about small, loud minorities that the majority of us don't belong to. It's proper to call out the deniers and the hysterics. It's also ok to see these posts, and understand they don't apply to you and automatically become defensive.
I think that's a great point. If someone says something silly, and you know it doesn't apply to you, then shrugging it off is a fine idea. Sort of like washing your hands.
Parsec wrote:
Where people are objecting is that flu season lasted 8 months. COVID season is only at 2 in the US.
On March 1 there were 65 total COVID cases and one death, so it would be difficult to claim that this has been going on two months.
Many deniers are taking the Trump approach to their hypocrisy - denying that they ever denied in the first place. It works remarkably well.
bartholomew_maxwell wrote:
A Real MD wrote:
You’re getting desperate bro! Our medical ICU, which normally has 34 beds, has expanded to 60. We have about 50 patients in right now, 30 are on vents w COVID. I don’t even live in one of harder hit states!
But some people is was ride by some of the busy hospitals and them hospitals was not even busy. They is mostly was empty.
Hey Bart: Where are you from? Your level of mother tongue interference shouts "I'm not from this USA!"
"They is mostly was empty."
WTF?
play all day wrote:
Belarus? Japan? Iceland, Israel? Germany? The world deaths are not close to the flu.
The one of those I am most closely watching out for is Israel. They are going for herd immunity but isolating the vulnerable. That appears to me to be a smart move and one that all developed countries will eventually have to face. If they fail miserably and numbers sky rocket then we are all in for a whole load of trouble. So far they look ok.
FO. This is a running forum not a Corona forum.
Go and attention seek elsewhere you effeminate pussay.
Bouncy wrote:
FO. This is a running forum not a Corona forum.
Go and attention seek elsewhere you effeminate pussay.
This site has a "Coruna-Virus" forum for which this post is tagged. Not sure why you are triggered by Corona Virus posts in a Corona Virus sub-forum, but I've seen dumber.
If at this point you're just trying to keep an open mind and look at the facts for yourself (based on, what, a degree in marketing?) and make your own decision...
Even though every news outlet, every epidemiologist, and every government from Andorra to Zimbabwe is telling you to STAY HOME to keep Covid-19 from killing millions of people...
Then you're not just "thinking objectively." You're as deeply in denial as the worst sort of anti-vaxxer. Keep your tinfoil hat firmly in place.
You can start scrubbing. But the blood on your hands won't ever wash off.
jesseriley wrote:
Regarding data from UK, the gov’t just admitted that, of the 550,000 employees of their Health Service, only 2,000 have been even tested! Front page news, deniers.
Both sides are deniers. You deny me I deny you. That’s how this game was set up. There is always two sides to every issue, and if you are in a position to control the dialogue you can manipulate all sorts of issues to create an unbridgeable divide. This is the strategy and its what’s happening right now.
Systemic obesity, pollution, eugenics and playing god. These are fundamental societal problems that we have ignored for decades, the chickens are coming home.
One thing we all agree on, whether you think this will wipe out half the earths population or not, this sucks
He is absolutely right. Most of these people are near death. If death rates don't meaningfully increase what is the big deal. So hospice pt dies 2 months earlier big deal. The only death in our county was a 90+ yr old on death bed that was visited by family before she died contracted covid and is now a covid death stat. I'm sure this is happening in a large majority of these deaths. 90% of Italian deaths were over 70 and about 75% had 3 commodities. These are people already quickly on their way out. Now try and measure the amount of damage that is occurring due to these draconian measures that are unconstitutional. If is impossible to even factor in begin to compute the damages.
But we can't do that. The sheep will kill if that is what the media dictates. If the media was screaming that the Government was acting like Nazis taking our rights away, there would be thousands rioting in the streets. Instead the media is trying to protect the elite NBA players and actors and singers and they are demanding even more rights be taken away so the sheep freak out when they see people outside.
slripe111 wrote:
Both sides are deniers. You deny me I deny you. That’s how this game was set up. There is always two sides to every issue, and if you are in a position to control the dialogue you can manipulate all sorts of issues to create an unbridgeable divide. This is the strategy and its what’s happening right now.
There are not two sides to everything. This is incredibly simplistic thinking.
old_dead_people wrote:
He is absolutely right. Most of these people are near death. If death rates don't meaningfully increase what is the big deal. So hospice pt dies 2 months earlier big deal. The only death in our county was a 90+ yr old on death bed that was visited by family before she died contracted covid and is now a covid death stat. I'm sure this is happening in a large majority of these deaths. 90% of Italian deaths were over 70 and about 75% had 3 commodities. These are people already quickly on their way out. Now try and measure the amount of damage that is occurring due to these draconian measures that are unconstitutional. If is impossible to even factor in begin to compute the damages.
whatever helps you not freak out, i guess
but this is totally not correct