US men's 'thon team 4th

Jim

I agree. Well done to Brian Sell, Clint Verran, Jason Lehmkuhle, Pete Gilmore and Chad Johnson.

For the USA Men's Team that was supposed to do "nothing" according to the some of the "experts" on these boards, it was a great team performance.

95 starters and 61 finishers - look how well the USA guys did against certain marathon powerhouse countries - and "what ifs" don't count in the results.

I am not sure if they delete "individual runners" from the team calculations, but here are my raw team scores for the IAAF World Cup team competition:

1st Japan 21 points 3, 4, 14, (20) (48)

2nd Kenya 47 points 7, 11, 29 and two dnf

3rd Ethiopia 63 points 13, 19, 31 and two dnf

4th USA 71 points 9, 22, 40, (51) (59)

5th Brazil 84 points 10, 33, 41, (49) and one dnf

6th Portugal 87 points 18, 24, 45 and one dnf

7th Spain 88 points 8, 30, 50 and one dnf

8th Israel 105 points 21, 37, 47

Countries starting with a team but failing to have three finishers to get a team score were:

Morocco - 2 finishers and 2 dnf

Italy - 2 finishers and 3 dnf

South Africa - 5 dnf (that will cause an inquest!)

Tanzania - 2 finishers at 2 and 5 - and 2 dnf

France - 2 finishers and 2 dnf

Finland - 2 finishers and 2 dnf

Russia - 2 finishers and i dnf

Korea - 2 finishers and 1 dnf

Webb was 9th in his event.

Brian Sell was 9th in his event.

Excellent job to both runners.

team scoring

So when the hell did Japan become kickass marathoners?

Great job by the USA Team. They represented very well today, extremely proud of their effort!

I have always felt that the # of medals won is not the only measure of a nation's success at distance running. Obviously, there are only 3 medals in each event with over 200 nations competing for those medals. Despite African dominance, there is more diversity in distance (800-marathon) than any other sport in the world.

Having finalists (where rounds are involved) and making an impact on the result of the race (as Webb did) are better indicators of the strength of a nation's runners.

The fact that our marathoners were able to finish (unlike many others) nad finish 4th indicates our growing success.

You are right, what ifs don't count, but, look at what it would have taken for us to win. 10 minutes from two runners who have run that fast or our first choices being healthy and present.

What I really want to see (next) is a U.S. presence in major marathons around the world. Every fall and spring we should see differrent Americans mixing it up in the various marathons with the best in the world. Our current crop of runners are leading the way!

Interesting that time claculation versus points calculations only reverses Spain/Portugal in team placings.

Individual Events

1. $60,000

2. $30,000

3. $20,000

4. $15,000

5. $10,000

6. $6,000

7. $5,000

8. $4,000

Marathon Cup

1. $20,000

2. $15,000

3. $12,000

4. $10,000

5. $8,000

6. $6,000

One can only assume you are joking about the quality of Japanese marathoning - for many, many years now they have been superb on both the men's and women's sides.

Carnivore 69 wrote:

Webb was 9th in his event.

Brian Sell was 9th in his event.

Excellent job to both runners.

The way they achieved these seemingly equivalent placings was virtually polar opposite. Sell, ran a slow, smart patient race - didn't panic when he was more than a minute behind the leaders at 25k. Webb, on the other hand, threw down a bonehead surge midway through his race then died the rest of the way.

Difference between the two 9th places, IMO: Sell came from the 40s to place 9th out of 61 finishers, a much higher percentage of the finish field than Webb, who went from first backwards to finish 9th out of 12.

You can't compare like that. The Marathon is run as one race, the 1500 had heats. Percentages of the field really doesn't work. They're two separate races. Either way, I am impressed with both of them. More so with Sell because of his p.r. in the championship race and his seemingly lower profile. People expected Webb at least in the final. Very few expected Brian in the top 10.

are you serious comparing sell to webb? webb finished ninth actually trying to win, or at least get a medal and had a lot more pressure on him. Sell finished ninth picking off a lot of runners who actually tried to go for a medal. if the race had been 2:08 or more even he may have finished 25th and no one would really care. webb went for it, sell just ran safe. more respect to webb. also at the end of the year, who do you think we will be ranked top ten in the world? here's a hint, not a guy from hansons.

Comparing the two, and their WC races:

Sell - tough, ballsy, smart.

Webb - tough, ballsy, dumb.

Sell knew his competition and own limitations (Dirty Harry: "A man's got to know his limitations") and ran accordingly. He learned his lesson at the '04 Trials about trying to muscle his way to a win.

Webb, on the other hand, keeps making the same move, even when he saw (in the earlier rounds) what the result would be. That might work in the US champs, but not against the best in the world. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

The marathon field was weaker than the 1500m field. Most of the top guys are aiming for big name marathons and bypass WC altogetheir. Props to Sell but don't compare his 9th to Webb's 9th.

Be Real wrote:

The marathon field was weaker than the 1500m field. Most of the top guys are aiming for big name marathons and bypass WC altogetheir. Props to Sell but don't compare his 9th to Webb's 9th.

How many Oly Medalists were in the 1500? How about the marathon? Nuff said. HANSONS ROCK

how is the marathon field "weaker" than the 1500 field when el g and lagat didn't even run?

Here are the facts.

1) Sell and Webb both placed 9th a the world champs.

2) Put the current top 100 marathoners in one race and Sell would not even crack the top 50.

3) Do the same with Webb and he'd be really close to 9th.

You are correct sir. Two of the top 1500m Hicham El Guerrouj and Bernard Lagat were not in the race. How about the literally dozens that were not in the marathon race? Case closed.

Here are the facts wrote:

2) Put the current top 100 marathoners in one race and Sell would not even crack the top 50

That may be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

rather than using hypothetical bs about who your "top 100" marathoners and 1500m guys are, why not just use some real facts -- like the world championships. they were open to anyone who qualified and the results are pretty empirical -- sell was 9th in the world. how does your analysis account for the fact that sell just beat the reigning olympic gold medalist, thys and ramaala? or do you just ignore that?

yep. there were 2 Olympic medalists in the marathon field and they both finished behind Brian Sell.